Interactive Forum February 2018: Jared Donaldson Serve

[johnyandell]

Jared Donaldson Serve

Last month we looked at his groundstrokes, and this month here is Jareds serve. As with his forehand and backhand you can see that he is missing some of the elements of the top playerswith the serve it is his hand, arm, and racket rotation in the upward and outward swingso called internal shoulder rotation.

It's a comment on the state of knowledge in coaching that a player could reach the top 50 without maximizing one of the most important elements in racket speed. Then again there are players well above him with the same kinds of problems, Kei Nishikori for one example. Click Here for a great article on how this element works in the service motion.

[seano]

I'd like to see a full side-view of the legs and hips in the wind up to get a clearer idea of what is truly going on. My suspicion is that Jared is just bending his knees but not loading the rear hip, I'd like to see what his knees look like when fully loaded. Ideally, each knee would be directly over the appropriate foot. The lack of internal shoulder rotation is particularly evident on the side-view angle. Another interesting aspect of his serve is how he seems to be pulling his head down just before making contact. This is due to squaring up his hips and the right leg kicking out to the side. He starts his upward motion well but suddenly rotates the right hip and seems to start to pull down. The right leg finishes too far out to the right. Also notice how he's not looking up at the ball at contact, eyes are forward not up. All part of the pulling down process. I'd be interested to know if Jared had a jack-knifing problem earlier in the serves development.

[don_budge]

At the 45 second mark in the bottom video we see a side view of the serve. This beginning position is obviously home made. Where was the coach when this kid needed to be told...this is not alright. As a consequence there are going to be some real back swing issues that are going to require a number of compensatory moves to get the damn thing back on track. But so what if you can get it back on track. How long can you possibly maintain any sense of rhythm or consistency with a motion like this.

Look...it's all ok if all you are trying to do is bash the ball into the service court but if you are trying to combine the elements of control (spin, speed and placement)...good luck. But the worst thing about a motion that looks so bad from the start is the uneven wear and tear on the body it will create over time. In order to keep that shoulder well oiled and healthy you probably cannot have such a terribly engineered motion. Too much friction!!!

[arturohernandez]

Look...it's all ok if all you are trying to do is bash the ball into the service court but if you are trying to combine the elements of control (spin, speed and placement)...good luck. But the worst thing about a motion that looks so bad from the start is the uneven wear and tear on the body it will create over time. In order to keep that shoulder well oiled and healthy you probably cannot have such a terribly engineered motion. Too much friction!!!

I agree! I think there is too much emphasis on hitting the ball hard. A series of feel oriented exercises would have helped him to develop a bit more spin and variety.

I wonder what his second serve looks like. In order to create some kind of spin or kick there should be a bit more rotation.

John, any second serves for us to look at?

[gzhpcu]

Seems he could be looser, because after impact his racket face does not turn towards the side fence. Looks like a WTA finish.

[hockeyscout]

...

[johnyandell]

Not sure Trump has billions. But may owe Billions to Russian mob.

[ten1050]

"I am really smart, I am really, really smart, I know a lot of big words." "I am the least racist person you will ever meet." "When you are a star you can grab them by the _______." "I want all you women out there who were molested by Obama to come forward." No woman ever came forward. Roger Federer never said anything remotely close to the above mentioned lies. Federer has created a foundation that builds schools in the so-called s-hole countries of the world. One person is a role model, the other is not.

[don_budge]

Don Budge Tennis Camp 1972

During the summer of 1972, I had the great privilege of working at the Don Budge Tennis Camp in Maryland. Mr. Budge was at the camp nearly everyday, and I had the great fortune of playing doubles with him and against him. He was 57 at the time and still playing tournament tennis at Wimbledon in the senior doubles event. I will never forget the first time I attempted to volley a ball he had struck with his miraculous backhand! It felt like a flying brick had hit my strings. At that time I was playing Division 1 college tennis, and I had never encountered such a heavy ball. However, what really impressed me was his forehand. During the early 1970's, most of the top players like Laver, Ashe, and Rosewall had better backhands than forehands. Mr. Budge's forehand was just as extraordinary as his backhand. I believe one of the reasons I enjoy watching Roger Federer play so much is that he reminds me of Mr. Budge.

Norman Ashbrooke

I know that Roger Federer is human and has lost his temper on a number of occasions. Everyone knows that Federer's bad temper as a junior probably rivaled McEnroe's. However, I know a gentleman who was the head umpire for the ATP for two decades. He told me quite frankly that Roger Federer and Patrick Rafter were the only Grand Slam singles champions he encountered that were really nice people. I realize that his comment may sound a little corny, however he did umpire the finals of Wimbledon and the U.S. Open on numerous occasions. He witnessed these great players under tremendous stress, and he had to deal with their complaints and displeasure. I suppose the most inspiring aspect of Roger Federer was his ability to evolve from a racket throwing tennis prodigy to a beloved world champion who continues to amaze the tennis world today.

Norman Ashbrooke

What tennis players do and say generally remains off the record. Roger Federer certainly has a nice public persona. What the hell...a great public persona. This guy is just so good after coming off of the most challenging tennis matches and coming up with the goods in the interview room. But this is largely rehearsed...he has done it so many times.

But I am not saying one way or the other. I would certainly give him the benefit of the doubt but nothing would surprise me. Somehow he might be arranging for some lovely to come in and massage him with a happy ending when he is on the road. It's a possibility...human nature what it is.

Donald Trump is a New Yorker and about as New York as you can get. Brash and braggadocio to the max. ten1050 is straight out of the "California Dreaming" culture...by that I am only saying that he lives in California. Not making any judgement of character. But actually I have had the opportunity of meeting this man who goes by the name of Norman Ashbrooke. Norman was classic California serve and volley as I remember and a super fellow. We were at the Don Budge Tennis Camp in 1972 at the same time...as fate would have it.

I was watching the U. S. Open men's final in 2009 where Roger Federer and Juan Martin Del Potro were locked in mortal combat. A five set final. At one point Roger objected to something that Del Potro did. I think it was something like a late challenge on a call...a Hawkeye review. It was at a very crucial point in the match and he used language directed at the umpire that "surprised" me. The words fuck and shit were used. I don't personally have a problem with either of these words but some see them as objectionable. Roger might just not be the saint that he is painted to be...but he sure is one helluva tennis player.

What Donald Trump did or did not say is sometimes a matter of soundbites and even here say. Certainly the media wants to play all of the "he said, she said" that they can get their hands on. This is a different world than it was in 2009...or 1972 for that matter.

I wouldn't say that I am a fan in the classic sense of the world...but I am rooting for both Roger Federer and Donald Trump. Donald Trump is the President of the United States of America. If he succeeds America will be the better off for it. If the "Deep State" and it's minions succeed in bringing him down...it isn't going to be pretty. There will be a war...and lots of not very nice things will be said and done.

Donald Trump? He's a man of our times. Sometimes in history such men are not the nicest or have the nicest manners. But he is dead set on getting the job done. He has shown himself to win against all odds. Against the most formidable power ever assembled in the history of man. Now he is doing his job. Even the summit attendees at the Davos, Switzerland economic summit greeted him as a rock star. They were citing his tax reform and how it is changing the business paradigm. His trade concepts are going to be hitting home soon. All engineered to benefit Americans. Unlike the predecessors who bargained away our chip with trade agreements that were treasonous. They betrayed the. American worker.

ten1050...remember those days in 1972? Do you remember Cyndi...the head girl councelor? I believe that she was a Californian too. Give her my love...my name was and still is...Steve Navarro. God bless you sir...and Don Budge too. May he rest in peace.

[hockeyscout]

Well said. Things are real confusing for USA opponents right now - they can't read the USA playbook anymore.

They don't understand this new game.

Sooner or later we have to ask ourselves ... why do we continue to send money year after year to all these countries where things just get worse and worse and worse?

They happily take USA dollars, laugh at us dumb foreigners and never change one single thing, EVER.

Why do we feel obligated to send money when zero changes?

I can say the best piece of advise I ever got from my grandma was "Pay yourself first + take care of home #1."

Why doesn't the USA have the common sense of my grandmother?

Steve is right - listen to him closely - like many American workers he was thrown completely under the bus.

Its so bad now - if Trump wants to expand we do not have enough qualified and educated American workers now to re-build the country.

America now needs blue collar workers very badly - and guess what, we have priced them out of the game in the last twenty year on the education front and not made it possible for them to succeed.

Do you know the stress, divorces and social problems this government policy has created for so many families over the years? Does anyone care? Really, care?

The USA has spent all our money paying to much money into NATO, fighting other people's wars and letting profits - jobs get taken out of the country by leaches, insane unions, paying for sex scandals of politicians etc -- when we should have spent it on education, sports facilities, infastructure, schools, teachers and our dying vets!

Frankly speaking -- medical, sports and school should be free to every citizen. The USA can afford it. I read an interesting article about Norway - and they said in it why would people want to leave Norway for the USA when they have their great medical, school and pensions?

Its a joke that the USA is not ten miles ahead of everyone in the world in every facet of life for their citizens.

No excuse for it, really.

Politicians do a great job of distracting us from what the real issues are here - and they should be addressed and solved.

[ten1050]

Hello Steve,

It was so great to hear from you. I did not know that you used Don Budge as a pen name. It has been nearly half a century since we listened to stories from Budge about the US vs Germany Davis Cup matches where Hitler would call and remind Von Cramm that losing would mean a one way ticket to the Eastern Front. Anyway, I think were both older and wiser, but I miss those days of youthful exuberance. I still play tennis everyday, tennis has given me so much. My good health, my wife of 42 years I met on a tennis court, and I am now a grandpa. I love the game, I love tennisplayer.net, I even love all the amusing tennis videos on YouTube. One of my closest friends and doubles partner voted for the president. I strongly believe we can all agree to disagree on various subjects. Anyway, I am delighted that you are involved and passionate about this wonderful game. I wish you all the best.

Sincerely,

Norman Ashbrooke

[doctorhl]

Wow! JY, did you ever dream that serve analysis would become so political!

[johnyandell]

Doc,
Nothing surprises me in this forum

[sjhara]

Interesting forum. While I can really get into the politics of the day, I think Jared Donaldson’s serve is interesting in relation to his forehand from last months’ forum.-and more perplexing.
Here is a young player who has made gains in the rankings and yet there is something missing. But according to this article from the Los Angles Times, Donaldson’s serve has or is being worked on big time.

Jared Donaldson's visit to the 'serve doctor' still paying off at the U.S. Open
By LISA DILLMAN
SEP 02, 2016 | 7:05 PM

Father and son met father and son on a tennis court one day in Orange County.
The question: How much "surgery" was required for the youngster's serve? Jared Donaldson had recently turned 17 and his father, Courtney Donaldson, brought him to see Phil Dent and his son Taylor Dent.

"We walked out on the court," Courtney said. "[Taylor] introduced me to his father. They watched Jared serve twice and Phil goes, 'Hmm.' I go, 'What does 'hmm' mean?' I'm thinking Jared needs to add more spin to his serve. He said, 'We've got to change everything.'"

"We had to do it. He had just turned 17 and better to do it at 17 than 21, or never," Courtney said.
Following that, Jared moved to Irvine and started working with the Dents at their tennis academy in Fountain Valley. Taylor Dent, who is with the Donaldsons in New York, admired Jared's ability to recognize long-term benefits versus short-term results.
"Dad really spent a ton of time, and Jared, for being a teenage boy, it's tough to make big changes like that and, wow, he did a really, really good job. He was very patient and smart. He knew it had to happen."

The bold is mine.

My first question is, when is this video from, pre-Dents or post-Dents? And the second is, if it’s post, what did they work on and how to bring it to where it is now?
As with his ground-stokes, it seems to me there is not enough body and too much hand in a rather artificial start to his serve, and not much release at the end of it. Also, I think there is something missing in the hip to shoulder rotation-so not much leg gets transferred through not much upper body.

[johnyandell]

Post Dent...but no idea what Phil and Taylor did...agreed there is a lot there that isn't being utilized.