Hyperextension degree, irrespective of serve type?

[EricMatuszewski]

Clips in the stroke archive suggest that degree of spinal hyperextension (back arching) is not dependent on type of serve (relatively flat, slice or topspin).

It appears that to accomodate a toss more to the left, players simply lean the whole body to the left, rather than adjusting by fine tuning hyperextension.

Each player seems to have a characteristic degree of hyperextension he or she will reach on Every serve (regardless of type).

The distinction here is that more lean is used to accomodate a different toss and not more bend.

This is contrary to the widely held belief in the teaching world that a player must arch the back more to hit a topspin/kick serve.

Later in the week I plan to add enhanced still shots to this post to better illustrate this. For now consider these clips...

Safin...

http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/strokearchive/pro_men/marat_safin/ms_serve/ms_1st_serve/ms_1st_serve.html?MS1stSDeuceCourtLevelRear.mov

http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/strokearchive/pro_men/marat_safin/ms_serve/ms_2nd_serve/ms_2nd_serve.html?MS2ndSDeuceCourtLevelRear.mov

Federer...

http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/strokearchive/pro_men/rogerfederer/rogerfederer_serve/rogerfederer_1st_serve/rogerfederer_1st_serve.html?Federer1stSDeuceFront3.mov

http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/strokearchive/pro_men/rogerfederer/rogerfederer_serve/rogerfederer_2nd_serve/rogerfederer_2nd_serve.html?Federer2ndSDeuceFront1.mov

Notice that Safin seems to have more trunk flexibility than Federer. The other explanation for his greater hyperextension might be that he is driving more forcefully with the legs, however, because Federer comes further off the court on average, I would tend to think that his greater degree of "arch" is more likely determined by greater flexibility.

I know that Safin does do trunk stretching excersises with a physical therapist/trainer (best described as a assisted "Upward Dog") ,so this probably has something to do with it, in addition to genetic factors.

Also, it seems that the desparity in the two players flexibility in this plane has more to do with the flexiblity of the hip flexors than of the spine.

To compare them all, I recommend getting quicktime pro (It's a great deal) and pulling up all 4 of the quicktimes at once on your desktop, you can then do a side by side comparison of the 4 (and of yourself If you like).


Finally, I want to encourage anyone to share their thoughts on this with me, even if you aren't a member or if your just shy, your welcomed to email me personally at ematuszewski@hotmail.com


I would especially like to here Mr Bruce Elliot's thoughts on this if he is available. I just read his serve articles and was delighted by them.

I've wrote about this to Duane Knudson of Chico State years back and I'm wondering if Bruce read that email as well, as they seem to be in somewhat of a partnership on coachesinfo.com.

Sincerely,
Eric

[gzhpcu]

Sampras tosses the ball way forward and to the left, combining power and spin. As John pointed out, he has quite a "left launch".

In respect to some future article on biomechanical techniques to reduce the possibility of injury, isn't this point also something to be considered? Lean more to the left, instead or overarching your back (causing strain)?

Also, the innate flexibility of player should also be taken into consideration. Maybe for someone like Safin arching his back is less of a risk than for a person less flexible...

[EricMatuszewski]

Phil,

I ordered the book, thank you It should arrive soon.


Also I think another misconception here is that players "Arch" their backs on purpose.

I believe the "arching" to be a result of the leg drive, rather than a conscious action.

How much arch happens, will depend on your flexibility and the force of your leg drive.

No coach should be telling people to "arch you back".

If the player is flexible, it will happen all by itself, to a degree determined by the players flexibility.

The Fed/Safin comparisson is simply meant to show that even at the top level, people have different flexibilities, not that one player is better off than the other.

I repeat no one should be telling players to "arch your back", as it is simply a result (motion driven as Brian would say) rather than conscious contaction (motor driven).

And yes I would love the major teaching organizations (USTA, USPTA, USPTR) to take note of these distinctions so that a safer method could be approved for teaching the topspin serve, as people are certainly going to try it anyway (because the pro's do).

Commonly, I think the party line has been "don't teach it at all" however I find this to be irresponsible, because kids especially, are going to try it (they try anything they see role models doing, much worse then kick serves).

It would be better to approve a method of teaching that would limit the chances of injury, rather than letting kids find out they did it wrong the hard way (and hurting themselves).

[johnyandell]

This is a very important point, because you do here a lot of talk about consciously arching the back.


What my observation is in the footage is that the players coil through the knee bend, but the torso remains relatively straight up and down. The ball position on the toss then determines the angle that the whole body launches upward and to the left.

[shootermcmarc0]

I agree with Eric about the back arching being a result of the leg drive. If I stand in my platform stance with no racquet or ball in hand, and do my service motion I can feel a little pressure on my lower back as soon as I bend my knees. I think its the body's natural reaction to prevent you from falling backwards. It takes me a conscious effort to align myself on the knee bend so that I don't feel that pressure (an effort which I think would hurt my serve). I also think that the back arching could be the result of players trying to get more trunk rotation.

[EricMatuszewski]

Quote: (B)ut the torso remains relatively straight up and down. Yandell


I see that the torso bends more on some players than others, there is a range here. On the less bend side are Kuertan, Sampras, Berdych, Ancic. Sharapova and Henin stay relatively straight on the womens side.

Interestingly, these players that don't "arch" as much seem to have further external rotations of the arm.


Safin is one of the best examples of a more pronounced "arch", especially in the hip flexors. His actual external rotation is less pronounced, however the "arch" allows him to still get a deep drop.

[julian]

Serve analysis

Which book Mr.Matuszewski is talking about?
juliantennis@comcast.net

[EricMatuszewski]

Julian,

The books Phil and I were discussing on another thread were "Fundamentals of Tennis" by Stanley Plagenhoef. and "Biomechanical Principles of Tennis Technique" by Duane Knudson. Both books are worth having.