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  • A Special Thanks to Rafael Nadal and Company...

    Originally posted by tennis_chiro View Post
    Don_budge, you are only demeaning yourself with your comments. If your bias keeps you from recognizing the quality of that match, you should not upset yourself by watching Nadal's matches.

    Great effort by both players. Unbelievable level from Cilic.

    don

    A special thanks to Rafael Nadal for once again proving my point. Nadal demeaned the sport of tennis the other day when he quit in the middle of a tennis match...a Grand Slam tennis match no less. Today a virtual unknown decided that it was better to quit than finish his match in the semifinals. After all...if Rafael Nadal can do it...why can't he?

    Overall it is a very messed up situation in professional tennis. There is no going backwards. Life is much the same with society today. It has been engineered beyond all recognition. The players might as well wear pink because they are becoming a bunch of you know whats. Fill in the blank...frankly I don't care what word you use.

    But then again there will be legions of apologists. Those that are willing to make up excuse after excuse to explain what has transpired. I have a word for the whole kit and caboodle...disgusting.

    You don't quit on a player of Roger Federer's stature. You crawl to the end of the match if you have to. To show respect...in order to not demean yourself or the game. Certain things should be held sacred. Things from the past...traditional standards.

    Nothing personal. I would never demean myself. Never.
    don_budge
    Performance Analysthttps://www.tennisplayer.net/bulleti...ilies/cool.png

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    • Well, I guess if anyone thinks Cilic is going to win, they would be in a position to make a lot of money.

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      • About quitting: I remember a Pat Rafter vs Andre Agassi match, where Rafter in the fifth set had terrible leg cramps and could barely move, but he finished the match instead of quitting. As don_budge says seems like the Aussie open has seen a negative trend set...

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        • I am all for Roger's inimitable way of making it look easy, but this is looking Washington Generalesque.

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          • Originally posted by stroke View Post
            Well, I guess if anyone thinks Cilic is going to win, they would be in a position to make a lot of money.
            Actually, I don't think I have seen Cilic play as well as he has so far this tournament. If Cilic can serve well and pound the ball and not get the jitters like Berdych did when moments come around, he may have a shout. And it would be better for him to hit the ball into the stadium seating than to let Roger find any sort of rhythm.

            You never know. It is a final....sometimes funny things can happen.
            Stotty

            Comment


            • Originally posted by stotty View Post
              You never know. It is a final....sometimes funny things can happen.
              Marin Cilic's victory over Roger Federer at the U. S. Open in 2014 was extremely memorable. It came immediately after Roger's victory over Gael Monfil's after finding himself two sets down in the quarterfinals. Roger was stretched to the limit of even his extremely large imagination against Monfil's. I remember that epic struggle. He had nothing left against Cilic and he played like it.

              That being said...Federer owns an amazing 8-1 advantage over Marin Cilic who is an extremely dangerous player. He has made a name for himself moreso with his "almost" than he has with his actual wins. He gets the big name on the ropes and has a tough time closing the deal. This becomes a reputation that becomes hard to shake. Ask Ivan Lendl about this phenomena. But these players can get over this hump and sometimes it only takes a watershed moment to do it. A victory over Roger on Sunday would give Marin a whole new lease on life.

              Roger has the necessary momentum and the necessary motivation now to come out with guns blazing against Cilic. He has three big time wins over Cilic since that fateful day in New York City. Most incredibly was a come from behind win at Wimbledon in 2016 where Cilic had him three sets to one. That match was unforgettable for me. I was getting ready to come back to Sweden that day and Roger finished him off just before I had to leave for the airport.

              The final at Wimbledon was indeed another one of these strange modern day matches when a player comes out with less than the intestinal fortitude that they need to handle an occasion as big as they come. It seems to me that Marin was almost crying in his chair because number one...Roger was in the process of pinning his ears back and number two he had a blister on his foot. It was his foot wasn't it? Hmmm...sound familiar.

              Well now Cilic is on the receiving end of a strange disappearing act by his opponent and Federer also had the same experience. Funny things can happen? Yeah...they sure can.

              Originally posted by gzhpcu View Post
              About quitting: I remember a Pat Rafter vs Andre Agassi match, where Rafter in the fifth set had terrible leg cramps and could barely move, but he finished the match instead of quitting. As don_budge says seems like the Aussie open has seen a negative trend set...
              Did Rafter really do that? He's never been a big favourite of mine (Prince racquet user) but nevertheless he has grown in my eyes. An Australian with a never say die attitude...even when you are dead. Cramps are a terrible pain and to finish with cramps and practically crawl to the net to shake your opponents hand is a victory...even if you lose. Even if you lose...you win. This is typical Australian sporting courage. Personified by the crew that Harry Hopman developed way back when. Good for Rafter...thanks gzhpcu.

              So this is a fast court and it's going to be about getting the quick drop on the opponent. Seizing the initiative. Quick strike tennis. Cilic has a huge serve and perhaps questionable nerves. He may have worked out his issues for Sunday's meeting. I suspect that he has. But Roger is in great form it appears. He is well rested...although maybe too well rested. I hope that he comes out with the same look on his face Sunday as he did today. Even when Chung was injured Federer just kept pouring on the heat. Just as he should. When you smell blood don't even begin to feel sorry for the opponent...finish him. Then feel sorry for him. It's the way of the old tennis players. The Aussies did this...never ask for quarter and never give any. Roger has to get on top and just keep pounding away. But he has shown that he can claw his way back if he needs to.

              I hope that Cilic doesn't quit during the match. I know that Federer won't. This quitting stuff is really a bad example for younger aspiring tennis players to be exposed to. But who cares? It's almost over anyways. Once the "Living Proof" is gone what will be left?




              don_budge
              Performance Analysthttps://www.tennisplayer.net/bulleti...ilies/cool.png

              Comment


              • I finished or rather was finished in a tournament match from early in the third set with a pulled hamstring. But that doesn't mean I would recommend that choice. Unless you are a Christian zealot deep into the subject of crucifixion.

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                • Hoping for a competitive final with Federer vs. Cilic. If the match is anything like Wimbledon last year, it means that Tomas Berdych will have given Fed his toughest match in the last 2 of 3 grand slams. Something to be said for that.

                  For Federer, #20 is within reach.

                  Kyle LaCroix USPTA
                  Boca Raton

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                  • Cilic has firepower and mobility. But Fed looked sharp against Chung at the beginning before the Fußblase took over. Foot-bubbles, classic German. In any case, I don't see Marin being able to hang with Federer for five sets and win three. He could get on a huge roll. But Federer these days knows all the ups and downs of a match.

                    If his serve is on point and comes storming out of the gates it could be over more quickly than we think.

                    To me Fed has played extremely well.

                    But I have yet to see him have an unreal day where everything is clicking like it did at Indian Wells last year.

                    Fed loves the big stage and Sunday is the biggest of all, a chance at number 20.

                    I have a feeling that Fed may give us a sublime performance which leaves us with our jaws dropping.

                    Or me might give us a gritty win.

                    Either way it will be fun to watch...

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by stroke View Post
                      Wilander has too much to say. A couple of years ago, he was saying that Fed's record vs Nadal was poor basically because he did not have the necessary cojones.
                      Actually, at the time Matts said it, he was right. I have been watching tennis for many years and I have never seen a player so psychologically defeated and broken than when Roger faced off against Nadal from almost day one of their rivalry to 2015. Even the odd match Roger won, had a story behind it. I watched them all.

                      Not only was the match up not good for Roger, Nadal was also tougher on big points...tougher physically...just tougher all round. It was a palpable when you watched their matches and undeniable. Even the staunchest Federer fans would have to concede their man was broken.

                      What then happened in the Nadal/Federer rivalry is perhaps the most important lesson any player can learn. Nothing is forever and dynamics can be changed. Roger was always tough but had to became tougher. Tennis is a game, not life and death. You can change a perspective if you really want. You just have to go away, be honest with yourself, see what has to be done, change your attitude, then go back and do it.

                      I think that big gap they had before they played each other again helped in many ways. And now the boot is firmly on the other foot. Nadal is not the match player he was. He loses his nerve at crucial times when in the past he would never, never have. The advice he is getting from his coaching entourage is questionable also...diabolical actually. His match against Muller at Wimbledon was tactical suicide and should never have happened.

                      Nadal has improved his game, but it only really shows when he is being aggressive. If he can be convinced to be more aggressive all the time and not revert to type it would help him in so many ways.

                      I have become almost sick and tired of lauding Federer. He is quite magnificent and we all know it. But turning around his match-up with Nadal is probably his greatest feat.
                      Stotty

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                      • This article says he is better now than 5-6 years ago...

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                        • It's the Racquet Dummy...

                          One cannot underestimate the larger equipment. All of this "change" began and ended with this decision to switch. Bigger cajones? Yep...the racquet even gave the man bigger equipment in that department. The change in the mental attitude and the ability to dare is another huge change in the Federer psyche. How long did overstay his devotion to the old equipment? Five years? Ten years?

                          He owns Nadal now. All of the others are nursing injuries somewhere in the unknown. Wilander said that it wasn't only his technique that is keeping Roger injury free...it is his tactics. It's true. He ends things without messing around. Nadal has only himself to blame. As do all of the rest. They chose the style of game that they would play. All of this scurrying around is taking it's toll. The modern paradigm...two handed backhand, strong gripped forehand, boom boom serve then back up behind the baseline. It isn't that hard to figure out. It has been the theme of my 5,000 posts.

                          Everyone marvels at the "new" drive backhand of Federer's. The bread and butter is still the slice. Yesterday he threw a liberal amount of slice at the Korean wonderkid. He lofted it...he drove it...he cut it...short or deep. He varied it every single stroke. The kid never saw the same ball two times in a row. He was confused and he looked it. It wasn't so much the blister as he was embarrassed. The same thing happened to Cilic last year at Wimbledon. They came all that way only to find that they were only playing Tennis 101 and they were up against a PhD...Dr. Federer. Slicing and dicing. Surgically taking the other player out of their comfort zone directly into the discomfort zone.

                          It was the racquet. Every facet of the Federer game is better by at least a degree of 10% and that adds up pretty quickly in the hands of a Maestro. At 37 years old he stands head and shoulders over the rest of the field. One-handed backhand. All court tennis. Intelligent serving tactics with a perfect service motion. You know the paradigm...it's don_budge. The book is William Tilden. The model is Richard Gonzalez with the Don Budge backhand. The coach is Harry Hopman. The Living Proof? Read it and weep.

                          No...you cannot say enough about this guy. Not if you have any knowledge or respect for the game. This is the way it was meant to be played. It's God's gift to mankind...or rather it was. Before mankind started to tinker with it...just like he is in society. It's broken...can't fix it now. It is only just to watch and admire. Perhaps wonder...where did it all go wrong?

                          I can answer that too. I was there.
                          don_budge
                          Performance Analysthttps://www.tennisplayer.net/bulleti...ilies/cool.png

                          Comment


                          • It has been quite the feat, turning around that match up. And it firmly entrenched his place in history as the best ever. Even before this feat, he was probably there, but this turnaround feat definitely took the edge off his only blip, the Nadal head to head record. Still think it is his backhand(standing up to the Nadal barrage), not his cojones, that has sparked his reversal of fortunes vs Nadal. His backhand now to me looks like the best one hander out there. Until last year, I would have thought the best one hander on tour was Gasquet and Stan.
                            Last edited by stroke; 01-27-2018, 03:45 AM.

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                            • It's the Racquet Dummy...

                              I have to agree that the equipment was an issue for Fed just as it was for Sampras. Fed was playing with a disadvantage. Players were bullying him. Think about the Tsonga match where he lost two sets up. Or how Berdych was just pounding him. And certainly with Nadal.

                              Nadal was tougher but he also had more real estate to exploit. And he found Fed's weakness a backhand with a 90 inch square frame.

                              Once Fed switched rackets and the others level dropped just a bit, it was game over. They cannot push him around any more.

                              And now we can see how truly great he is.

                              It's easy to be tougher when you have more real estate. I am not saying that Fed would have beaten Nadal on clay. But I think after 2008, it would have been much tougher for everyone with the new equipment.

                              In fact, the 100 square inch racket may be the saving grace of the one handed backhand.

                              Comment


                              • On slice...

                                I really see it with the women. No one slices. Has anyone watched Steffi Graf?

                                How often would it help to simply change the pace and move people to parts they are not use to being in?

                                This was so clear for the women. I would think slice and then they would just hit another ball deep.

                                Or I would think come in and they would move back.

                                Halep was gassed but watch match point.

                                A good volleyer with some attacking game would have ended that point at the net.

                                She ran back after being in an attacking position.

                                Please Steffi mentor some of these younger players...

                                Comment

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