Segura Comes to the States

[johnyandell]

Let's discuss Caroline Seebohm's article, "Segura Comes to the States"

[gzhpcu]

A slow motion study of Segura's double-handed forehand. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eMkIt2_xucs

[bottle]

A slow motion study of Segura's double-handed forehand. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eMkIt2_xucs

It's really where a person of extraordinary presence most exists, isn't it.

[johnyandell]

Phil Great Find!!!

[tennis_chiro]

It may not be a true ATP type backswing, but you can definitely make the argument that there is an SSC in there!

don

[gzhpcu]

Is there an ATP type backswing for a double-handed forehand?

[stotty]

I think the noticeable thing with the old guys is their racket is usually on edge from start to finish of the stroke, no dog pat like most players today. This method carries on right up to Connors and McEnroe. I guess this is due to milder grips. I also think smaller racket heads played a part.

[tennis_chiro]

I think the noticeable thing with the old guys is their racket is usually on edge from start to finish of the stroke, no dog pat like most players today. This method carries on right up to Connors and McEnroe. I guess this is due to milder grips. I also think smaller racket heads played a part.

Granted, that is all true. But it seems to me that we were taught in those days not to allow any wiggle in the wrist and we didn't hit with any SSC. Pancho may not have a "dog pat", but I definitely see a little SSC at the beginning of the forward swing. Considering he was a small guy with a compact and quick stroke, we still have repeatedly heard that his forehand was the biggest shot in the game. I think he was a little ahead of his time in discovering the SSC for a little additional power without having to take a bigger swing.

Also, realize that his grip structure is basically that of a normal left-handed 2-handed backhand. While it certainly was a forehand, the mechanics were really those of a 2hbh. And if that was the biggest shot in the game in his day, then isn't that an argument for a 2hbh being a more aggressive shot. We see some great 2hbh's, but it would be hard to imagine someone running around there forehand to hit their 2hbh as much as Pancho ran around his backhand to hit his 2-handed forehand which was actually constructed like a lefty 2hbh.

Something to think about. Connors almost used his 2hbh like that. It was better than his forehand and pretty devastating.

don

[stotty]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eMkIt2_xucs

There may be a bit of SCC in there but not much. The ball is struck on the way up and above the waistline so you aren't going to see too much lowering of the racket head. It's interesting that Segura is settling his left hand relatively late in the stroke. He's approaching the end of the backswing by the time he is fully gripped up.

A left-handed two-handed backhand? That's interesting. I guess that Segura is right-handed has to turn that theory upside down to a degree. When I took my coaching exams one of the questions that got thrown up is where should the dominant hand be on a two-handed forehand? The orthodox way, at the time, was the dominant hand on top.

What I like most about Segura's forehand, and not just in this clip but in photos you see, is that he is always leaning in, and in a big way. He is often seen in photos slightly hugging the ball and often looks to be taking it on early. I guess the dominant hand being on top lessens the reach and gives the shot that hugging look at times. A friend of mine saw Segura play and said his ball control was phenomenal.

Connor's was a little unique in that he would sometimes move round to hit backhands rather than a forehand. He would sometimes do this on a dead ball that landed mid-court. Unthinkable these days. Benoit Paire does this sometimes but mostly stupidly and with nothing like the same tact that Connors would do it. Very occasionally we see Djokovic opt for a backhand where he could have easily shifted round for a forehand.

I love the Segura clip. It's a lovely shot and Segura is watching the ball like a hawk.

[bottle]

Maybe, maybe not. Another equally subtle ingredient, if it's there (but I see it with my crew coach eyes) is a bit of rowing with his upper bod. I suggested that once to a famous tennis coach and on-line impresario. It isn't who you think and I won't drop his name. But he is very bright and he did not disagree.

[stotty]

Maybe, maybe not. Another equally subtle ingredient, if it's there (but I see it with my crew coach eyes) is a bit of rowing with his upper bod. I suggested that once to a famous tennis coach and on-line impresario. It isn't who you think and I won't drop his name. But he is very bright and he did not disagree.

I get the rowing analogy. For me that is happening about here:

https://mtmca.com/Segura%202.jpg

[stotty]

Ellsworth Vines' gives an expert's analysis of Segura's unusual playing style:

Two-handed forehand is most outstanding stroke in game's history; unbeatable unless opponent could avoid it. Improved as a professional by taking advantage of volleying ability he rarely used as an amateur. Backhand also better later in career. Returns serve brilliantly, particularly off right side where quicksilver moves give him unusual positioning talent. Serve only average for his class of player but well placed, as is overhead. Very deft volleyer, particularly off forehand. Lob and dropshot unsurpassed. Superb passing shots, change of pace, and asbolute consistency make him greatest "little man" to ever play the game.