Incremental grip adjustments

[doctorhl]

The biggest factor for me to move from old school topspin strokes & grips to new school topspin strokes & grips was learning to accomplish some closing of racket face as racket butt started to face oncoming ball. I was faced with accomplishing this with either a large grip change or incrementally changing grip & forcing a significant closed face with “ knuckles up on fh( wrist hyperextension) or “knuckles down” ( wrist flexion) on bh. This incremental change seemed to be easier for those who, like me, had to unlearn motor memory first. I was unwilling to tackle the learning curve associated with an immediate, large grip adjustment. Anyone been down this road. Thoughts on incremental grip change versus full grip change when unlearning/ learning?

[bottle]

The biggest factor for me to move from old school topspin strokes & grips to new school topspin strokes & grips was learning to accomplish some closing of racket face as racket butt started to face oncoming ball. I was faced with accomplishing this with either a large grip change or incrementally changing grip & forcing a significant closed face with “ knuckles up on fh( wrist hyperextension) or “knuckles down” ( wrist flexion) on bh. This incremental change seemed to be easier for those who, like me, had to unlearn motor memory first. I was unwilling to tackle the learning curve associated with an immediate, large grip adjustment. Anyone been down this road. Thoughts on incremental grip change versus full grip change when unlearning/ learning?

Yes, the whole subject is daunting and with no easy answers. It absolutely blows my mind that Tom Okker was able to hit huge topspin forehands with a continental or composite grip. (Composite would be a smidge toward eastern from continental. But I am only guessing that Okker had that grip. Different hands are precisely that-- very different.)

Blows my mind too that McEnroe and Ashe could hit huge topspin backhands with composite grip. Composite (unigrip) on both sides for McEnroe and maybe same thing for Ashe although he didn't reveal as much on this point as McEnroe. We do know all the players who went against Ashe tried to hit to his forehand.

The thing about the McEnroe and Ashe topspin backhands is that they were hit with a curled wrist. Try it. If you are anything like me your wrist, curled, will be too weak to be effective. Regardless, Ashe and McEnroe were not weak. And achieved the closed racket face you seek any time they wanted.

Venus Williams, I have always thought, rolls over the top of her forehand, which is why it can be a brilliant shot one day and loathsome the next.

Okker, he thought the wrist and hand and arm rolled as one "over the top" of the ball.

Not what Westerman and so many others are teaching today-- all the teaching pros who want a constantly vertical racket face (or only SLIGHTLY beveled face) during any wipe. No need to condemn or unduly praise them.

I have a friend-- a very senior player who can match forehands with any young Turk. He is extremely shy out on the court. But he is a volunteer at a local hospital. While there for routine blood work, I encountered him in the cafeteria and brought up his forehand since I had heard him expressing gratitude one time for some technical change he implemented.

The change was your very point. Strings more beveled at contact. Don't know how he did it, and this is a guy with whom you'd better keep things brief. So I didn't pose further questions.

But I've watched him. Doesn't wipe. Hits poptop. Entirely different.

One could go the present route of Brent Abel, a guy with wide exposure on the net.

I interpret his present jeremiad to mean that tennis is so full of craziness, inconsistency and unfathomable complexity that one does better just to apprentice oneself to any strong-minded (read "opinionated") individual as he did to Tom Stow. Then jump in wholeheartedly and give up your whole soul.

I'm sure there were painters who apprenticed with Vermeer, and am equally sure that none one of them became another Vermeer. At best they became a Van Der Meer. (Sorry for the bad and very obvious joke.)

My personal reaction to the whole challenge was to rearrange thumb from something that wraps to something that slants and points.

Yes, it points to some specific landmark on the racket handle every time.

Better to lose but be your own man, and I sure as hell don't lose all the time. If I did, considering rheumatism, knee replacement etc. I would quit in a second.

[bottle]

So, did I answer your question? Which was about unlearning to learn. Probably not. Me, I self-feed a lot to explore any new idea. And I recommend it. And think the hazards associated with it are grossly exaggerated.

[doctorhl]

Thanks bottle for your astute response. I often vacillate between wondering if I am “ahead or behind the curve” on any given topic.

[don_budge]

The biggest factor for me to move from old school topspin strokes & grips to new school topspin strokes & grips was learning to accomplish some closing of racket face as racket butt started to face oncoming ball. I was faced with accomplishing this with either a large grip change or incrementally changing grip & forcing a significant closed face with “ knuckles up on fh( wrist hyperextension) or “knuckles down” ( wrist flexion) on bh. This incremental change seemed to be easier for those who, like me, had to unlearn motor memory first. I was unwilling to tackle the learning curve associated with an immediate, large grip adjustment. Anyone been down this road. Thoughts on incremental grip change versus full grip change when unlearning/ learning?

It's not so complicated and if you tell yourself it is easy it is more apt to be easy.

Absolutely incremental. Incremental can lead to bigger and better. Half a bevel is a huge change and basically it changes how your body fits to the racquet...or as you put it "opening" or "closing" the face of the racquet. Roger Federer discovered this recently with what I believe is a grip change that it is almost impossible to discern with the naked eye. But the proof is in the pudding in this case...the backhand is obviously vastly improved and Roger has the ability to drive the backhand from places and positions that he wasn't able to before he switched racquets.

I have found recently that with the combination of a modified backswing I can accommodate a slightly stronger grip on my forehand. If I concentrate on my footwork it is rather amazing what a small "incremental" change can make.

Be aware that when you are closing the face of the racquet you should subtley change the position of your entire body to the ball as it relates to the grip at impact. The incremental grip change will require an incremental "ball placement" adjustment. That is...where you meet the ball at impact. Be ready for a few surprises. You might be surprised how this grip change and body position will effect your follow through.

Darwin's Evolution of the Species and Survival of the Fittest. It isn't the one that is the strongest or even the smartest that survives...it is the one that adapts the best. When adapting...think of the evolutionary process. Baby steps.

[bottle]

It's not so complicated and if you tell yourself it is easy it is more apt to be easy.

Absolutely incremental. Incremental can lead to bigger and better. Half a bevel is a huge change and basically it changes how your body fits to the racquet...or as you put it "opening" or "closing" the face of the racquet. Roger Federer discovered this recently with what I believe is a grip change that it is almost impossible to discern with the naked eye. But the proof is in the pudding in this case...the backhand is obviously vastly improved and Roger has the ability to drive the backhand from places and positions that he wasn't able to before he switched racquets.

I have found recently that with the combination of a modified backswing I can accommodate a slightly stronger grip on my forehand. If I concentrate on my footwork it is rather amazing what a small "incremental" change can make.

Be aware that when you are closing the face of the racquet you should subtley change the position of your entire body to the ball as it relates to the grip at impact. The incremental grip change will require an incremental "ball placement" adjustment. That is...where you meet the ball at impact. Be ready for a few surprises. You might be surprised how this grip change and body position will effect your follow through.

Darwin's Evolution of the Species and Survival of the Fittest. It isn't the one that is the strongest or even the smartest that survives...it is the one that adapts the best. When adapting...think of the evolutionary process. Baby steps.

Almost sounds like a rational person.