2017 Swiss Indoors Basel...ATP 500...Basel, Switzerland

[bottle]

So now he canceled an earlier post and re-posted it so it could be last (or first, depending on one's POV)? Seems that way to me.

[don_budge]

I watched the entire Fed vs Mannarino match yesterday. It was a great match. Mannarino really made him work hard. Fed lost the 1st set, won the 2nd easily and had to dig in to win/take the third. He worked hard and was of course the better player, but I have always liked Mannario's game. A very good mover, good off both sides, good serve and hands. That is what number 28 in the world looks like( and that is about as good as his ranking has ever been), It shows to me how tough it is out there. The announcers to me missed the boat and spent way too much time talking about how Fed was off and not how well Mannarino was playing and competing.

I watched it too from the second set on. Adriano Mannarino is a player worth studying. He beat Denis Shapovalov easily after dropping the first set in the second round to earn his meeting with Roger Federer and he made the most of it. After he lost the second set it would have been easy enough to pack it in and say that he took the worlds number one to three sets. But he dug in. Federer just has too much though. He was playing with his B- game and made a show of it. The crowd deserved as much seeing as he has dispatched with the competition post haste.

Mannarino looks to me as if he has this "Miloslav Mecir" quality about him. He moves quickly and sort of uncannily efficiently because he sure doesn't look to be real quick at first glance. But once he gets to the ball his efficient movement pays off big time as he is balanced and with his short compact strokes he is able to redirect the play to his liking. He's a cerebral player and a tactician. Managing the court and always trying to put the ball in a spot with just enough speed to keep his opponent off balance as well as guessing. The compactness of his swing makes it more difficult to know where he is going as he can hold his intention to the very last moment.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z2bzlj4ypvw

Mannarino's deficiency may be in his lack of a real physical presence. He isn't that imposing which also sort of works to his advantage. He's deceptive in that he maintains so much control with so little physical effort. He is a great example of my rhetorical question to the student..."What is Power?". The answer that is control. Control is power. "What is control?" is the follow up question. That answer lies in the combination of three elements...speed, placement and spin. Any given shot will have a percentage of emphasis on one or more of the three. Mannarino does this little juggling act with a high level of competence. His placement is exceptional. He can flatten out his ball so that he doesn't have to kill it to penetrate.

Federer gave the crowd a bit of excitement but bailed himself out in the end. In the next round he did no such thing. He just pounded David Goffin into next week. Goffin is a pretty darned good player in his own right...as stroke says of Mannarino. But he lacks the element of surprise and his game is so one dimensional that he is terribly predictable. Certainly predictable for a player of Federer's stature and level of play. I just love how the Federer backhand allows him to dictate play against these lesser players when it is on. When it isn't so sharp he has to work a bit harder and he resorts more to slicing...which is of course very effective too. In the third set he more or less decided that the drive was too erratic and just settled in and sliced and diced Mannarino into the locker room.

[bottle]

No...that new kid just delivered another bunch of threads. He has completely dominated the front page of the forum now with threads that are not getting any response. He doesn't seem to be present. He may only be an "Artificial Intelligence" entity. Lacking in normal human responses.

It really does not matter how much anybody responds to one of these posts unless its author is a Donald Trump.

[don_budge]

Roger Federer versus Juan Martin Del Potro...Finals of the 2017 Basel Open


Roger Federer playing lights out tennis. Juan Martin Del Potro playing a hot hand of late...returning to form after a number of years on the mend. Homecourt advantage to "The Swiss Maestro". An interesting final in lieu of the MIA Rafael Nadal. The conditions were too quick for Nadal to take any chances here. He took the easy way out. Roger tuning up for the year end rush to the finish line. Juan Martin looking to qualify for London. There is some stuff at stake. Some stuff up for grabs. I wonder what the oddsmakers have this match at. I'm going with Roger Federer. I only bet with my heart.

[stroke]

Thanks for this. Funny how you always warm to the same players as me.

Mannarino is a tricky customer and a really interesting player. I really enjoy watching him play because he can upset just about any player. He is one the smartest players on the tour when it comes to playing matches and making life difficult for opponents. I'm a huge fan.

I have seen Adrian play in person up close and I came away impressed, even by top 30 standards. And he has a great competitive attitde out there. I was very disappointed at the commentary in the Fed match. This was on ATP TV which is usually pretty solid it this area, but they went a bit Mary Carillo on this one. Mannarino had to rebuild his forehand a few years ago, grip structure and all, as he was having significant arm problems and could not get a diagnosis. He finally redid his forehand and solved the issue in doing so The obscure article I read on this did not supply any details, but he does seem to have an unsusual very compact western type forehand. He is never rushed at all off that side it seems to me. His backhand in top shelf.

[bottle]

Good because more provocative. Except for the part about Mary Carillo, which is way out of whack since she is great.

You will hate this comment. I could almost apologize. Perhaps you could equate me with don_budge, who has recently been complaining about a new guy writing too much in the forum.

Especially bad of him in that the new guy uses a whole different set of references and therefore is quite interesting and provocative as you yourself are slowly coming to be.

don_budge never apologizes. He doesn't know how. So I will apologize both for him and me. We both know all too well how to quell interesting response, which doesn't mean we should.

It is much like an ancient Hungarian proverb about things getting interesting "until God stuck his big brass-studded cock into it."

[don_budge]

Very high quality first set between Roger Federer and Juan Martin Del Potro. I watched intently at 3-3 to see of Federer could produce any magic in the seventh game to turn the tide in his favor. But had to wait until the ninth game when at 4-4 Roger passed Del Potro three times crosscourt when he was approaching the net behind hard hit forehands from the mid court from his backhand side. On break point Del Potro once again tried the same approach but this time he was waiting for the crosscourt from Federer. Federer crossed him...and went down the line. Federer serving for the first set.

Ooops...broken. 5-all.

[don_budge]

Very high quality first set between Roger Federer and Juan Martin Del Potro. I watched intently at 3-3 to see of Federer could produce any magic in the seventh game to turn the tide in his favor. But had to wait until the ninth game when at 4-4 Roger passed Del Potro three times crosscourt when he was approaching the net behind hard hit forehands from the mid court from his backhand side. On break point Del Potro once again tried the same approach but this time he was waiting for the crosscourt from Federer. Federer crossed him...and went down the line. Federer serving for the first set.

Ooops...broken. 5-all.

The first set turned very quickly...for Del Potro. He won in a tie-breaker. Roger, however, deftly recovers to take the second with a break at 4-5. The third set could be a dandy. Does Federer have enough gas in the tank? Del Potro has beaten him twice here before in the finals. Incentive for Roger.

[don_budge]

The first set turned very quickly...for Del Potro. He won in a tie-breaker. Roger, however, deftly recovers to take the second with a break at 4-5. The third set could be a dandy. Does Federer have enough gas in the tank? Del Potro has beaten him twice here before in the finals. Incentive for Roger.

Nice little turnaround by Federer. He lost the first game getting broken but he has responded by winning four straight games for a 4-1 lead. It is only to serve it out now. Del Potro looks to be a bit down at this point.

[stotty]

So Roger wins again, defeating the lumbering 'weary one' in three. Not bad. Two tough matches in one week and he comes through smelling of roses. How near is he to number one? It must be in sight? I guess it depends on how Rafa fairs from now until the end of the season.

[klacr]

So Roger wins again, defeating the lumbering 'weary one' in three. Not bad. Two tough matches in one week and he comes through smelling of roses. How near is he to number one? It must be in sight? I guess it depends on how Rafa fairs from now until the end of the season.

Federer is 1460 points behind Nadal. 2500 points available in Paris and London. With Fed withdrawing from Paris, puts all the pressure on London.

Kyle LaCroix USPTA
Boca Raton

[don_budge]

Under Pressure...Roger Federer

Federer is 1460 points behind Nadal. 2500 points available in Paris and London. With Fed withdrawing from Paris, puts all the pressure on London.

Kyle LaCroix USPTA
Boca Raton

When the service motion is perfect this is the one stroke in tennis that you can absolutely count on when the pressure is on. Roger was under a bit of pressure yesterday. Juan Martin did a great job of applying pressure to the Federer game but Roger weathered the storm and came back with some relentless pressure of his own. I remember my dear old tennis coach telling me how this works. He talked of having a lot of people watching and how that makes you nervous as first but as you become accustomed to it you learn to make it work for you. All of the distraction becomes a motivation to narrow the focus. Isn't it amazing how Roger has handled all of the pressure and expectations with his renewed passion for the game this year? But keep in mind the field isn't all that deep. Guys like Adriano Mannarino, David Goffin are fine players in their own right but when you examine the big picture you will find that the game has morphed into a rather one dimensional malaise. Perfect for Federer...and his ability to play all court tennis. A younger Federer with a few more mph on his serve and a bit more spring in his legs would be pouncing on the net regularly.

Should the conditions become quick in London it shifts the pressure on his opponents. He is the only player that can seize every opportunity that presents itself. The rest are just maneuvering their opponents around the court trying to set up the knockout. Roger is playing a different game. I'm really sorry to see that he has withdrawn for an alleged back problem. I would bet this is more about preparation than anything. He is measuring his steps. He's got it all down by numbers. Just as Peter Gabriel, Phil Collins and the rest of Genesis did in "The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YXUmKw4pFdc

Counting Out Time...Genesis (1974)

I'm counting out time,
Got the whole thing down by numbers.
All those numbers!
Give me guidance!
O Lord I need that now.

The day of judgement's come,
And you can bet that I've been resting,
for this testing,
Digesting every word the experts say.
Erogenous zones I love you.
Without you, what would a poor boy do?

Found a girl I wanted to date,
Thought I'd better get it straight.
Went to buy a book before it's too late.
Don't leave nothing to fate.
I studied every line, every page in the book,
Now, I've got the real thing here, I'm gonna take a look, take a look.

This is Rael!

I'm counting out time, hoping it goes like I planned it,
'cause I understand it. Look! I've found the hotspots, Figs 1-9.
Still counting out time, got my finger on the button,
"Don't say nuttin' just lie there still
And I'll get you turned on just fine."
Erogenous zones I love you.
Without you, what would a poor boy do?

Touch and go with 1-6.
Bit of trouble in zone No. 7.
Gotta remember all of my tricks.
There's heaven ahead in No. 11!
Getting crucial responses, dilation of the pupils.
"Honey get hip! It's time to unzip, to unzip, zip, zip-a-zip-a-zip.
Whipee!"
(Take it away Mr. Guitar)

I'm counting out time, reaction none to happy,
Please don't slap me,
I'm a red blooded male and the book said I could not fail.
I'm counting out time, I got unexpected distress from my mistress,
I'll get my money back from the bookstore right away.
Erongenous zones I question you
Without you, what would a poor boy do?
Without you, what would a poor boy do?
Without you, mankind handkinds through' the blues.


I recommend the entire album...by the way.

[don_budge]

The first set turned very quickly...for Del Potro. He won in a tie-breaker. Roger, however, deftly recovers to take the second with a break at 4-5. The third set could be a dandy. Does Federer have enough gas in the tank? Del Potro has beaten him twice here before in the finals. Incentive for Roger.

So Roger wins again, defeating the lumbering 'weary one' in three. Not bad. Two tough matches in one week and he comes through smelling of roses. How near is he to number one? It must be in sight? I guess it depends on how Rafa fairs from now until the end of the season.

Juan Martin Del Potro may well have been a bit fatigued. He won the week before in Stockholm. Two weeks in a row may be a big ask. Last week it was "Baby Fed" in the finals. He pounded Dimitrov into next week. This week it was a rested Roger Federer...different week, different ending. The challenge of defeating Del Potro to avoid a third loss in the finals at Basel gave "The Swiss Maestro" a turbo boost. He answered the question about having the necessary fuel which was a extremely important question looking down the road to London.

[stroke]

Under Pressure...Roger Federer



When the service motion is perfect this is the one stroke in tennis that you can absolutely count on when the pressure is on. Roger was under a bit of pressure yesterday. Juan Martin did a great job of applying pressure to the Federer game but Roger weathered the storm and came back with some relentless pressure of his own. I remember my dear old tennis coach telling me how this works. He talked of having a lot of people watching and how that makes you nervous as first but as you become accustomed to it you learn to make it work for you. All of the distraction becomes a motivation to narrow the focus. Isn't it amazing how Roger has handled all of the pressure and expectations with his renewed passion for the game this year? But keep in mind the field isn't all that deep. Guys like Adriano Mannarino, David Goffin are fine players in their own right but when you examine the big picture you will find that the game has morphed into a rather one dimensional malaise. Perfect for Federer...and his ability to play all court tennis. A younger Federer with a few more mph on his serve and a bit more spring in his legs would be pouncing on the net regularly.

Should the conditions become quick in London it shifts the pressure on his opponents. He is the only player that can seize every opportunity that presents itself. The rest are just maneuvering their opponents around the court trying to set up the knockout. Roger is playing a different game. I'm really sorry to see that he has withdrawn for an alleged back problem. I would bet this is more about preparation than anything. He is measuring his steps. He's got it all down by numbers. Just as Peter Gabriel, Phil Collins and the rest of Genesis did in "The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YXUmKw4pFdc

Counting Out Time...Genesis (1974)

I'm counting out time,
Got the whole thing down by numbers.
All those numbers!
Give me guidance!
O Lord I need that now.

The day of judgement's come,
And you can bet that I've been resting,
for this testing,
Digesting every word the experts say.
Erogenous zones I love you.
Without you, what would a poor boy do?

Found a girl I wanted to date,
Thought I'd better get it straight.
Went to buy a book before it's too late.
Don't leave nothing to fate.
I studied every line, every page in the book,
Now, I've got the real thing here, I'm gonna take a look, take a look.

This is Rael!

I'm counting out time, hoping it goes like I planned it,
'cause I understand it. Look! I've found the hotspots, Figs 1-9.
Still counting out time, got my finger on the button,
"Don't say nuttin' just lie there still
And I'll get you turned on just fine."
Erogenous zones I love you.
Without you, what would a poor boy do?

Touch and go with 1-6.
Bit of trouble in zone No. 7.
Gotta remember all of my tricks.
There's heaven ahead in No. 11!
Getting crucial responses, dilation of the pupils.
"Honey get hip! It's time to unzip, to unzip, zip, zip-a-zip-a-zip.
Whipee!"
(Take it away Mr. Guitar)

I'm counting out time, reaction none to happy,
Please don't slap me,
I'm a red blooded male and the book said I could not fail.
I'm counting out time, I got unexpected distress from my mistress,
I'll get my money back from the bookstore right away.
Erongenous zones I question you
Without you, what would a poor boy do?
Without you, what would a poor boy do?

Without you, mankind handkinds through' the blues.


I recommend the entire album...by the way.

If you are referring to Fed's ability to play all court tennis(or tennis in general) at a level that no one else ever has, I agree. I certainly like reading your commentary on these matches, good stuff, but I am not in agreement on the depth of men's tennis.

[don_budge]

If you are referring to Fed's ability to play all court tennis(or tennis in general) at a level that no one else ever has, I agree. I certainly like reading your commentary on these matches, good stuff, but I am not in agreement on the depth of men's tennis.

I am speaking of Federer in the present tense. He is the only player that can seize control (power) on any given point...on any given shot. At any point in a given match. Federer alone has the ability to fake right and go left. Like a clever basketball player he shifts from all out offense to stalwart defense in the wink of a young girl's eye. Whatever the situation calls for. Street life.

At a level that no one else ever has? You have to be careful here though. You see...the equipment is deceptive. With only an incremental increase in the size of his stick...some 7 square inches it has made all of the difference. You cannot compare. We cannot compare from one era to another. I have spoken of culmination points in past posts and we are nearing the end of the Roger Federer Era of tennis where we will encounter another culmination point. These occurs approximately every 15 to 17 years.

As to the depth of men's tennis...you've heard my argument many times. If you look at the draw sheets from the !970's this was hands down the deepest tennis ever was. With McEnroe, Borg, Lendl and Connors at the top with the longest list of supporting players the game has ever known. This was the era that I was competitive in. Today's game is the most one-dimensional era and therefore the weakest ever. As I have said...the size of the racquets tells a lie. Much as the rivalry between Andre Agassi and Pete Sampras was a lie. Agassi using 108 square inches and Sampras either 85 or 90 square inches. Andre said it best..."Image is everything". It's all about images now. You are probably too young to fully understand what I am saying. Maybe not.

Always appreciate your comments. Sharp...to the point. No shilly shalleying around. It doesn't matter if we agree or not...just state your case. More often than not that is sufficient.