Interactive Forum September 2017: Mischa Zverev Forehand

[johnyandell]

Mischa Zverev Forehand

You’ve watched him play and wondered what was happening with that forehand. Check it out this month at 240 frames per second. Does Mischa have the most extreme so-called ATP straight arm forehand ever? Look at the timing of the turn. He actually pauses it with his racket virtually still on some balls. Sometimes his turn doesn’t move from that pause until the bounce. On other balls at the bounce he seems fairly well turned with the left arm stretched—although his shoulders sometimes could turn further. Sometimes he is in between his pause position and his turn.

On all his forehands he is slightly bent over at the waist. Strangely he doesn't seem rushed and gets great outward extension. Your thoughts?

[johnyandell]

Mischa Zverev Forehand

[stroke]

He has great technique. It looks a lot like Rogers with a certainly less violent flip. It is so compact that he is never rushed on it, even on service returns. The compactness reminds me a bit of Tomic also.

[stotty]

I think the shot is unique in that the backswing phase is so late. Mischa seems to get away with it somehow. If you look at Roger, he is completing the backswing phase around the time the ball bounces.

I think there comes a point where a forehand can be too compact. Misha can struggle under pressure on that wing. His late backswing phase means he can struggle to get the shot out sometimes. He resorts to flicking at times, especially on returns.

The shot is an interesting study but I'm not terribly impressed by it.

[jeffreycounts]

The backswing phase does look late, but what is interesting is he contacts the ball well in front of his body with that straight arm.. It's also interesting that all the elements are there - "Tap" the dog. The flip. The straight arm. The extension (he hits John's extension checkpoints perfectly). The wiper. It's all there but if you didn't understand the components I think this stroke would look like a pretty crazy shot. You kind of need years of Tennisplayer.net articles to even understand it. it's amazing to me the endless variety of how good players put these elements together.

Technique aside, beautiful camera work and gorgeous video. Timely too. His kid brother was supposed to be a major threat at the US Open , but then Mischa comes out, 30 years old, with his serve and volley and does more damage. How great is that?

[klacr]

Thank you John for highlighting this forehand. I was struck by it back in 2016 when I saw him hitting in Miami. It was great to see Zverev at the US Open with the serve and volley game carve Isner up, but his forehand held its own as well against players with a more "typical" type of swing. His straight arm structure is solid, he's got the pro turn, the acceleration, less violent flip than Fed like stroke mentioned. It's not the most gorgeous shot but clearly it works. A nice simple model.

Kyle LaCroix USPTA
Boca Raton

[bobbyswift]

My feeling is that he has completely eliminated the backswing. He is in unit turn even after the bounce. There is thus no need of a gravity drop. The rest of the stroke looks good but it is to compact. In my opinion his forehand hurts him more than helps.

[florian80]

To put it in Mischa's words: "I realized that my groundstrokes game simply isn't good enough for worldclass Tennis so I started serve and volleying a few years ago." I played him in juniors and he never serve and volleyed at the time. The forehand has always been his big weakness. It was even catastrophic to the point that he ran around every forehand possible. ... By getting the "flip" or "late-hitting concept" as I like to call it right, he manages to get away with it a lot better now than several years ago. If he would get a little more on the inside in the slot I think it would be a lot better.

[stotty]

To put it in Mischa's words: "I realized that my groundstrokes game simply isn't good enough for worldclass Tennis so I started serve and volleying a few years ago." I played him in juniors and he never serve and volleyed at the time. The forehand has always been his big weakness. It was even catastrophic to the point that he ran around every forehand possible. ... By getting the "flip" or "late-hitting concept" as I like to call it right, he manages to get away with it a lot better now than several years ago. If he would get a little more on the inside in the slot I think it would be a lot better.

Thanks for this insight. Like you I think he's made the shot work somehow...but by world-class standards, it isn't all that. I like his backhand more. When he has his feet in the right place and his body right behind the ball, his backhand is a rock solid shot.

[arturohernandez]

But maybe his forehand serves a different purpose. It is perfect for approach shots and taking the pace from others, moving the ball and then attacking the net. So is it really that he started to serve and volley or was his game predicated on shortening the court and coming in?

It might be too compact but Federer's forehand is very compact. In order to hit the ball on the rise when inside the baseline it might be necessary to hit this way.

Fed probably had to shorten his backswing against DelPo last night when hitting from the baseline.

It seems to me that his stroke is perfect for the style Mischa plays. Any longer and he would shank a lot.

This reminds me of the Radwanska discussion...

[don_budge]

But maybe his forehand serves a different purpose. It is perfect for approach shots and taking the pace from others, moving the ball and then attacking the net. So is it really that he started to serve and volley or was his game predicated on shortening the court and coming in?

It might be too compact but Federer's forehand is very compact. In order to hit the ball on the rise when inside the baseline it might be necessary to hit this way.

Fed probably had to shorten his backswing against DelPo last night when hitting from the baseline.

It seems to me that his stroke is perfect for the style Mischa plays. Any longer and he would shank a lot.

This reminds me of the Radwanska discussion...

I missed the Radwanska discussion. But your points are good solid tennis thinking. What are the ramifications of such technique? Have a look at his forehand volley as well. That doesn't necessarily conform to specs either. Whereas the slice backhand and volley are textbook examples.

He is a bit unorthodox in his approach to the left hand side. But he is left handed so that radically changes the dynamic against the right handed opponent. His forehand is probably better than most right handed backhands so it isn't as if it is a liability. The comments about him playing it going forwards are noteworthy when considering the plusses and minuses of this stroke.

I think his serve is worthy of consideration as well. Actually arturohernandez is absolutely on the right path when discussing this forehand...it must be taken in total context of his whole game. Including his tactical objectives. Technique is the end in and of itself...it is a means to the end. Tactics and strategy more correctly being understood as the main objective. Technique allows one to implement a strategy based on the what the stroke can produce in terms of spin, speed and placement. Not necessarily in that order.

As a left hander though...high up on his tactical objective list should be attacking the right handed backhand. This forehand looks to me as if it might be conducive to producing angle to the backhand as well. A smart move when playing a two handed backhand from the left handed forehand side. Taking the ball early ala John McEnroe might also be a tactical focal point.

[VNT]

it is a solid forehand he demonstrats we can see. it's not de forehand of Federer , Nadal or Del Potro who can explode. their forehand is a real 'big forehand' . His preperation is rather late but as you say; 'The later you prepaire the faster you can hit.

[rwiener]

Zverev has a late take back and more compact swing than other pro men. Other elements of his forehand look sound. His forehand is inferior to other pro men and as a result he is a poor baseline player relative to other top 100 players. This negatively impacts his game, since he only has one option which is to get to net no matter what. Comments about how his technique is suited to his strategy is putting the cart before the horse. His strategy is a result of technical limitations. There are many examples of great serve and volley players who could also play very well on the baseline when necessary. They are called all-court players. Even Rafter, who was a pretty pure serve and volley player, had excellent ground strokes. If you don't believe it, go to YouTube and check out some of Rafter's classic matches in majors against Agassi in which Rafter repeatedly wins backhand to backhand exchanges against one of the best baseline players of all time. Zverev is a great player, top 30 in the world, with a serious technical deficiency which works against him being even better.

[gursoycu]

there are all good comments out there, not much to add. It probably works for a serve and volley type player, perhaps he disguises his forehand shot so as to catch the opponent by surprise. I would not think to teach this tecnique though. only the compactness maybe for service returns or flat high speed balls could prove useful to teach...

[tobinlim]

His late take-back might be the result of him wanting to better track the ball with both eyes being parallel to the baseline and so his shoulders stay relatively square until he is forced to unit-turn at the last minute and simply gets his arm in the "lag" position and just completes the rest of the swing.

Just a thought/guess.