Gerry Weber Open...Halle, Germany & Aegon Championships...London, England (ATP 500's)

[EdWeiss]

Uarturohernandz asks "Is there someone out there willing to say that the two hander can learn to be an all court player?"

I would be willing and one example is Jonas Bjorkman who had a two-hander, served and volleyed well, got up to no. 4 in the world in singles and was no. 1 in the world in doubles.

It might be easier for the one-handed player to have an all-court game, but if the coach is dedicated to teaching the all-court game, including the "classic" backhand slice and to do things like have the students play sets where they have to serve and volley and tells them they need to serve and volley in doubles even if staying back on the serve might bring more immediate results, in my view it can be done with players with two-handers

[klacr]

arturohernandz asks "Is there someone out there willing to say that the two hander can learn to be an all court player?"

I would be willing and one example is Jonas Bjorkman who had a two-hander, served and volleyed well, got up to no. 4 in the world in singles and was no. 1 in the world in doubles.

It might be easier for the one-handed player to have an all-court game, but if the coach is dedicated to teaching the all-court game, including the "classic" backhand slice and to do things like have the students play sets where they have to serve and volley and tells them they need to serve and volley in doubles even if staying back on the serve might bring more immediate results, in my view it can be done.

Bjorkman a great example. And he is motivating his player Marin Cilic to be more aggressive and embrace the net. Young Frenchman Pierre-Hugues Herbert is priming his singles game to match his doubles game in which he has been #1 in the world. A serve and volleyer. Jurgen Melzer was ranked in top 10 in world in both singles and doubles, used served and volleyed often.

Kyle LaCroix USPTA
Boca Raton

[arturohernandez]

Just to confuse things even more. There is Michael Youzhny who can hit three different backhands: one handed, semi one handed, and two handed. I never like to make absolute statements (sorry Don Budge if it seems I am waffling). So maybe there is a certain feel that develops with the slice that helps the all court game. So, is it possible that some aspects of the two-hander and one hander are common and if we can bottle that up (like Youzhny has) then it does not really matter what someone prefers. But I still think we are stuck with an hours in the day and a non-pro ability problem. Youzhny obviously has a lot of talent and time to practice.

https://www.tennisplayer.net/members/strokearchive/pro_men/mikhail_youzny/my_backhand/my_semi_two_hander/my_semi_two_hander.html?MYBHSemiTwoHanderCenterFront2_Tennisplayer440.mov

[don_budge]

Just to confuse things even more. There is Michael Youzhny who can hit three different backhands: one handed, semi one handed, and two handed. I never like to make absolute statements (sorry Don Budge if it seems I am waffling). So maybe there is a certain feel that develops with the slice that helps the all court game. So, is it possible that some aspects of the two-hander and one hander are common and if we can bottle that up (like Youzhny has) then it does not really matter what someone prefers. But I still think we are stuck with an hours in the day and a non-pro ability problem. Youzhny obviously has a lot of talent and time to practice.

https://www.tennisplayer.net/members...splayer440.mov

Not at all arturohernandez...to waffle is human to hold steadfast divine. But I was having a close look at the backhand that you posted of Mikeal Youzny and it is not a semi two hander at all. And that is an absolute statement. At 59 clicks with the right arrow key from the beginning of the video clip we see that Youzny has separated his left hand from the racquet but he makes a rather unusual move in that his hand seems to follow the racquet with the follow through. I wondered what the heck he was doing and all that I can come up with is that he didn't hit this ball very hard and was possibly trying for a soft placement. It appears that this is the case.

Just for the record...technically all backhands are at least one and a half handed. You must count the backswing when the "other" hand is on the racquet and for the most part the forward swing is initiated with the other hand on it as well.

I don't see Jonas Bjorkman being a classic sort of all court player. His style is sort of unique and he finds himself betwixt and between a lot. This guy spent a lot of time at the number one ranking spot in doubles mode and he was in fact as high as number four as EdWeiss notes.

Here is Jonas against the last remaining classic tennis player in the game today at the 2007 Australian Open. They were apparently playing in the second round.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDpYo3LiwZw

Here Jonas is playing the same guy in the semifinals of Wimbledon in 2006.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7SQfgtcCW0M

In both of these videos there is limited action in the forecourt and at the net. This is further evidence that the court were slowed down to usher in the Backcourt Era which saw Federer start to play a lot more from the backcourt. His style of play...the solid foundation of fundamentals in his technique allows him to adapt better than any other player in the Backcourt Era. If you watch these matches you will see that Jonas is capable of playing the forecourt and the net and pretty darn well at that but you can see that it is not a true fit and he struggles at times with the in between stuff. The question that I ask myself is how good of a all court player would Bjorkman have been if he played with a one hand backhand. I suspect he would have been a much better player.

The two hand backhand and its domination in terms of numbers these days is due a number of factors. Number one...back in the eighties Nick Bolletieri was taking in a lot of leading juniors when they were reaching the point where Pete Sampras was when he dropped the second hand on his backhand. But Bolletieri never changed anything about any of his players. He more or less played the hand he was dealt with them and none of them really developed anything of consequence after joining the academy. Since he was so high profile and he was attracting so many to his academy the two handed backhand got more than its share of the propaganda out there. Here the coaching began to be hijacked.

Another thing that has been driving the prevalence of the two handed backhand is junior tennis. More and more emphasis has been put on the junior game in the last 40 years or so. Juniors start with the two handed backhand a lot and they are drawn into some pretty fierce competitive situations. They hold on to the backhand with two hands like a security blanket. They are afraid to let go because the first thing that will happen is their ranking will suffer. This is a big mistake because the only ranking that counts is in the men's game and everything else is premature. As a result fewer and fewer men have really transitioned out of the junior style of play. You only have to go down the rankings and look at all of the really big athletes that are still playing the junior game...strong forehand, two hand backhand from the backcourt.

The truth of the matter is that the all court game is much more complicated and it isn't just the technique...it becomes a real tactical chess board. This is another reason that the juniors stick with the junior style of play. It takes a while to transition to the all court game...apparently Pete Sampras with attest to this.

I look at many of the players on the tour and I ask myself why a big strong guy like Tsonga or Berdych or Del Potro or any of them for that matter need to use two hands on the backhand. When you look at players like Federer, Wawrinka, Thiem and Gasquet you realize that these guys aren't any bigger than the others and they hit the hell out of their backhands. You another thing that strikes me as a negative influence on the one handed backhand is that the emphasis of coaching has been on the ATP forehand and the backhand has taken a back seat. But guys like our beloved owner here on the website are coming up with some really solid backhand stuff that if you follow the technique you are prepared to go out and teach it. I know it has been a great help to me to have more information to coach it. I love coaching the all court game to all of my students and none of them are going to be professional tennis players.

The type of tennis that is being played today is the result of a lot of messing with the game by the ITF and a lot of dumbed down propaganda as well. If they only speed up the court incrementally you will see the all court game come back with a vengeance. Roger Federer's victory at the Australian Open should have speeded up the process and it just may have. Even here in Sweden where the one handed backhand has been nearly illegal for decades they are beginning to wake up. One of the seminars that was attended by one of my players the coach was saying that Sweden is 20 years behind the program as in Europe fully 50% of the juniors are using the one hand backhand. I don't know if this is true or not...but Sweden is at least 20 years behind...maybe 40. Change is hard to come by in this soft communist society. It is touted as socialism but you only have to be here a while to realize how the group think has a lock hold on everything...including how they brush the clay courts. EVERYONE does the same thing. Can you say...Stepford Wives?

But don't forget Bjorn Borg in this discussion about all court play...even though he played in the classic era. This guy also had a bit of a curious backhand. I have always maintained that his backhand was a one and a half handed. He seemed to release the racquet head just after he hit the ball and sometimes it appeared that it was hard to tell whether it was before, at contact or after contact. But again I ask the question...how much better of a player would he have been if he had had a one hand backhand. Some say John McEnroe chased him from the game because he had mastered the Borg game. I don't think that is true but Johnny sort of did have a knack for playing against the Borg style.

Interesting subject...don't you think so?

[klacr]

I look at many of the players on the tour and I ask myself why a big strong guy like Tsonga or Berdych or Del Potro or any of them for that matter need to use two hands on the backhand. When you look at players like Federer, Wawrinka, Thiem and Gasquet you realize that these guys aren't any bigger than the others and they hit the hell out of their backhands. You another thing that strikes me as a negative influence on the one handed backhand is that the emphasis of coaching has been on the ATP forehand and the backhand has taken a back seat. But guys like our beloved owner here on the website are coming up with some really solid backhand stuff that if you follow the technique you are prepared to go out and teach it. I know it has been a great help to me to have more information to coach it. I love coaching the all court game to all of my students and none of them are going to be professional tennis players.

Here's Ivo Karlovic talking about his desire for the two handed backhand.

http://www.menstennisforums.com/2-general-messages/910985-ivo-karlovic-i-shouldve-developed-2hbh-i-wouldnt-lose-match-if-i-had-two-hander.html

Kyle LaCroix USPTA
Boca Raton

[stotty]

Not at all arturohernandez...to waffle is human to hold steadfast divine. But I was having a close look at the backhand that you posted of Mikeal Youzny and it is not a semi two hander at all. And that is an absolute statement. At 59 clicks with the right arrow key from the beginning of the video clip we see that Youzny has separated his left hand from the racquet but he makes a rather unusual move in that his hand seems to follow the racquet with the follow through. I wondered what the heck he was doing and all that I can come up with is that he didn't hit this ball very hard and was possibly trying for a soft placement. It appears that this is the case.

Just for the record...technically all backhands are at least one and a half handed. You must count the backswing when the "other" hand is on the racquet and for the most part the forward swing is initiated with the other hand on it as well.

I don't see Jonas Bjorkman being a classic sort of all court player. His style is sort of unique and he finds himself betwixt and between a lot. This guy spent a lot of time at the number one ranking spot in doubles mode and he was in fact as high as number four as EdWeiss notes.

Here is Jonas against the last remaining classic tennis player in the game today at the 2007 Australian Open. They were apparently playing in the second round.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDpYo3LiwZw

Here Jonas is playing the same guy in the semifinals of Wimbledon in 2006.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7SQfgtcCW0M

In both of these videos there is limited action in the forecourt and at the net. This is further evidence that the court were slowed down to usher in the Backcourt Era which saw Federer start to play a lot more from the backcourt. His style of play...the solid foundation of fundamentals in his technique allows him to adapt better than any other player in the Backcourt Era. If you watch these matches you will see that Jonas is capable of playing the forecourt and the net and pretty darn well at that but you can see that it is not a true fit and he struggles at times with the in between stuff. The question that I ask myself is how good of a all court player would Bjorkman have been if he played with a one hand backhand. I suspect he would have been a much better player.

The two hand backhand and its domination in terms of numbers these days is due a number of factors. Number one...back in the eighties Nick Bolletieri was taking in a lot of leading juniors when they were reaching the point where Pete Sampras was when he dropped the second hand on his backhand. But Bolletieri never changed anything about any of his players. He more or less played the hand he was dealt with them and none of them really developed anything of consequence after joining the academy. Since he was so high profile and he was attracting so many to his academy the two handed backhand got more than its share of the propaganda out there. Here the coaching began to be hijacked.

Another thing that has been driving the prevalence of the two handed backhand is junior tennis. More and more emphasis has been put on the junior game in the last 40 years or so. Juniors start with the two handed backhand a lot and they are drawn into some pretty fierce competitive situations. They hold on to the backhand with two hands like a security blanket. They are afraid to let go because the first thing that will happen is their ranking will suffer. This is a big mistake because the only ranking that counts is in the men's game and everything else is premature. As a result fewer and fewer men have really transitioned out of the junior style of play. You only have to go down the rankings and look at all of the really big athletes that are still playing the junior game...strong forehand, two hand backhand from the backcourt.

The truth of the matter is that the all court game is much more complicated and it isn't just the technique...it becomes a real tactical chess board. This is another reason that the juniors stick with the junior style of play. It takes a while to transition to the all court game...apparently Pete Sampras with attest to this.

I look at many of the players on the tour and I ask myself why a big strong guy like Tsonga or Berdych or Del Potro or any of them for that matter need to use two hands on the backhand. When you look at players like Federer, Wawrinka, Thiem and Gasquet you realize that these guys aren't any bigger than the others and they hit the hell out of their backhands. You another thing that strikes me as a negative influence on the one handed backhand is that the emphasis of coaching has been on the ATP forehand and the backhand has taken a back seat. But guys like our beloved owner here on the website are coming up with some really solid backhand stuff that if you follow the technique you are prepared to go out and teach it. I know it has been a great help to me to have more information to coach it. I love coaching the all court game to all of my students and none of them are going to be professional tennis players.

The type of tennis that is being played today is the result of a lot of messing with the game by the ITF and a lot of dumbed down propaganda as well. If they only speed up the court incrementally you will see the all court game come back with a vengeance. Roger Federer's victory at the Australian Open should have speeded up the process and it just may have. Even here in Sweden where the one handed backhand has been nearly illegal for decades they are beginning to wake up. One of the seminars that was attended by one of my players the coach was saying that Sweden is 20 years behind the program as in Europe fully 50% of the juniors are using the one hand backhand. I don't know if this is true or not...but Sweden is at least 20 years behind...maybe 40. Change is hard to come by in this soft communist society. It is touted as socialism but you only have to be here a while to realize how the group think has a lock hold on everything...including how they brush the clay courts. EVERYONE does the same thing. Can you say...Stepford Wives?

But don't forget Bjorn Borg in this discussion about all court play...even though he played in the classic era. This guy also had a bit of a curious backhand. I have always maintained that his backhand was a one and a half handed. He seemed to release the racquet head just after he hit the ball and sometimes it appeared that it was hard to tell whether it was before, at contact or after contact. But again I ask the question...how much better of a player would he have been if he had had a one hand backhand. Some say John McEnroe chased him from the game because he had mastered the Borg game. I don't think that is true but Johnny sort of did have a knack for playing against the Borg style.

Interesting subject...don't you think so?

This is such a good post in so many ways. It's a terrific read, actually. It throws up other questions and avenues of discussion. Most curious of which is how come the two-hander didn't truly surface on mass until the 80's? The classic game involved smaller but heavier rackets yet precious few players were two-handed back then. Neither were there junior rackets. The only junior racket option was a senior-sized Maxply sawn off midway along the shaft. Why then, with such cumbersome rackets back then, weren't there two-handed players all over the place? Explain that one if anyone can?

Borg may well have been chased out of the game. That is certainly the American version. Who knows for sure? Certainly not me. But what today's top four have taught us through their longevity at the top is that things shift, players get injured and lose confidence, players rethink things and retool their game, players find solutions...you get inexplicable momentum shifts in form and dominance. On balance, players find it hard to stay at number one for more than five years...and certainly not consecutively.

Borg and McEnroe were early doors when their rivalry ended. Had it continued it would very likely have shifted around in favour of one then the other. I think today's rivalries tell us this.

As to Borg's backhand, it was a good one. The man was strong as an ox and could easily have been one-handed. My personal feeling is that everyone can be a one-handed player but not everyone can be a two-hander. I firmly believe this, actually.

[don_budge]

Here's Ivo Karlovic talking about his desire for the two handed backhand.
http://www.menstennisforums.com/2-ge...wo-hander.html


Kyle LaCroix USPTA
Boca Raton

Good find klacr...interesting comments following. Ivo is at the other end of the spectrum of "all-court" tennis. A rare breed indeed in today's tennis world. Not one of my favorite's to watch and you understand why. But just super comments in this thread and an interesting discussion with regards to "all-court tennis". No better time to discuss it than during the "grass court season".

The grass court season has been shortened historically as well. Three of the four majors used to be played on grass with the French being the only clay court major. Further explanation regards the disappearance of the one-handed backhand and the emergence of the two handed backhand. Eh, Stotty?

Great stuff arturohernandez!

[bottle]

Good find klacr...interesting comments following. Ivo is at the other end of the spectrum of "all-court" tennis. A rare breed indeed in today's tennis world. Not one of my favorite's to watch and you understand why. But just super comments in this thread and an interesting discussion with regards to "all-court tennis". No better time to discuss it than during the "grass court season".

The grass court season has been shortened historically as well. Three of the four majors used to be played on grass with the French being the only clay court major. Further explanation regards the disappearance of the one-handed backhand and the emergence of the two handed backhand. Eh, Stotty?

Great stuff arturohernandez!

Oh sorry, I have made a grave mistake, don_budge is a very positive fellow, although he doesn't realize that all-court tennis is not alt-right court tennis. Try to imagine, reader, what Breitbart tennis would look like, and then ask, "Is this don_budge?"