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2017 French Open...ATP 2000...Roland Garros...Paris, France

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  • #31
    Originally posted by don_budge View Post



    Yes...an interesting match up. The Huge Del Potro Forehand versus The Counterpunching Murray. Murray's backhand may Trump Del Potro's forehand here. Plus the issue of movement...didn't somebody say that Murray was eating up the court. But Del Potro has been posing a big problem for these big players as of late. To meet him so early in the tournament is unsettling. It seems that they wouldn't meet a player of his "stature" in these early rounds. It would be great if he got his ranking up to where it once was.
    Murray is prone to wobbling at the moment and Del Potro is not the sort of man to wobble against. It depends if Murray gets passive, which he still sometimes does, even with Lendl in the camp....sometimes it's impossible to change those spots.

    I am watching a bit of Schwartzman v Djokovic. Djokovic is being slightly more assertive than in recent times but making errors here and there he wouldn't usually make. It's the right way to go and no doubt Agassi has been an influence here. If you watch the 2011 Djokovic he was far more assertive off his backhand wing and plugged the ball hard and close to line far more often. Djokovic gradually became more of a bore to watch as time went on because he became more and more conservative. I think this worked fine against 95% of the tour but against Wawrinka and Del Potro he has paid a price. In 2011 he was actually quite nice to watch when he was cleaning the lines more often.

    Score is 4-4....

    Stotty

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    • #32
      Originally posted by stroke View Post
      His bh is not nearly as good as Murray's. No surprise, the oddsmakers have Murray as significant favorite at 4/11, 9/4 for Delpo.
      Originally posted by stotty View Post
      Murray is prone to wobbling at the moment and Del Potro is not the sort of man to wobble against. It depends if Murray gets passive, which he still sometimes does, even with Lendl in the camp....sometimes it's impossible to change those spots.
      Thanks guys on your interesting thoughts regarding this upcoming match. I watched John McEnroe and Mats Wilander discussing both players last night on EuroSport. Mats has a program called "Game, set and Mats" that comes on after the programmed matches. Djokovic and Schwartzman were the featured match and it was interesting to watch Djokovic turn on the afterburners when Diego went up two sets to one.

      John McEnroe also has a spot on in the French Open program on EuroSport. It's a bit of a spoof where McEnroe is playing some kind of Metaphysical Wizard providing deep insightful thoughts in a most humorous manner. Yesterday he had Boris Becker on the psychiatrist coach and asking him questions regarding the Djokovic and Agassi situation. John does have a sense of timing...whether it be tennis or comedy. We saw it on the Jiminy Glick video I have posted here from time to time. It's good to be able to laugh at ones self. Isn't it?



      During the analysis of Del Potro and Murray one statistic stood out to me. He is increasing hitting more and more drive backhands. At one point he was slicing ninety plus percent of the time but now it appears that he is driving more than fifty percent of the time. They also discussed the difficulties that opponents were having with the slice. Another topic of the discussion was Murray's decline ever since he earned the number one player in the world status. McEnroe said that he was anxious that Del Potro return to his true ranking position. Who else said that? That is short of saying that I "agree" with Johnny.

      This match is going to transcend the rest of the foreplay in the round of thirty two. It's a match that should be a quarterfinal match in a Grand Slam event. Del Potro is not afraid of beating the best players in the world...like a Diego Schwartzman is.
      don_budge
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      • #33
        Juan Martin Del Potro (#29 seed) versus Andy Murray (#1 seed)


        A intriguing start of a potentially interesting match with a number of possible and distinct outcomes. Andy Murray won his first service game by drop shotting to the forehand of Juan Martin. Is his tactical strategy to play it cute? Good luck with that. Juan Martin for his part hit a beautiful backhand volley at his shoe tops for a winner on his service game. Question...why doesn't this big behemoth of a man not take advantage of his reach and come forwards on a regular basis? Answer...its complicated.

        Juan Martin breaks Murray in his second service game and is poised to hold serve at 2-1. This could get interesting. It already is...Juan just served two aces to hold serve. Stay tuned...or better yet watch it on your own. For free even!




        Oops...a failed drop shot by Murray.
        don_budge
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        • #34
          Interesting first set with Thiem and Djokovic. Djokovic had the first set in the bag at 4-2 then threw in two consecutive double faults and lost his serve tamely. He then had two sets points at 5-4 and blew those. In the tiebreak Djokovic made inexplicable errors for no real reason.You can see the problem with Djokovic of late. He's flinching, flinching right where he cannot afford to. He maybe be losing his nerve.

          Djokovic is a better player than Thiem and should win this match. He just needs to settle down.

          7-6...first set to Thiem.
          Stotty

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          • #35
            Originally posted by stotty View Post
            Interesting first set with Thiem and Djokovic. Djokovic had the first set in the bag at 4-2 then threw in two consecutive double faults and lost his serve tamely. He then had two sets points at 5-4 and blew those. In the tiebreak Djokovic made inexplicable errors for no real reason.You can see the problem with Djokovic of late. He's flinching, flinching right where he cannot afford to. He maybe be losing his nerve.

            Djokovic is a better player than Thiem and should win this match. He just needs to settle down.

            7-6...first set to Thiem.
            Not a particularly well played set by either player. The most interesting thing about the match so far is John McEnroe in the booth. Keeping it real.
            don_budge
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            • #36
              It was tough to see a great champion like Novak kind of go away in that match. Thiem is at a great age to do what one has to do to win this most physically demanding of all Slams, but I think we all know Nadal will not be going away or even giving anything other than his absolute best for the entire match. I think Thiem drops back too deep in the court bh side givng up too much to the Nadal fh to win 3 out of 5 vs him, but it would be a massive win for him should he be able to pull off the big upset.
              Last edited by stroke; 06-07-2017, 05:25 AM.

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              • #37
                Originally posted by don_budge View Post

                Not a particularly well played set by either player. The most interesting thing about the match so far is John McEnroe in the booth. Keeping it real.
                At 4-2 you could see why Novak normally eats Thiem for breakfast. All the rocks Thiem threw at him came backed as easy as can be. Then the wheels came off. And, yes, it became a poor match. It reminded me why I usually never cancel work to watch hugely anticipated matches; they often amount to nothing.

                As stroke suggests, Nadal won't be rolling over quite as easy as that, and Thiem makes a few too many rash errors to come away the winner of that one.
                Stotty

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                • #38
                  Thiem may be the future, but he needs to be superman against Nadal. Sad to see Novak fade away.

                  Kyle LaCroix USPTA
                  Boca Raton

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by klacr View Post
                    Thiem may be the future, but he needs to be superman against Nadal. Sad to see Novak fade away.

                    Kyle LaCroix USPTA
                    Boca Raton
                    Maybe it was the conditions too...it was pretty windy. The first set was pretty spotty. Ugly in spots. I'm glad Dominic Thiem won...it's time for some of this one dimensional stuff to move on. There has never been a more one dimensional number one tennis professional than Novak Djokovic. Andy Murray is a close second but he takes the cake in the boredom department. There has never been a more boring character to be the number one tennis player in the world. Then there is Rafael Nadal. He takes the cake period. The most self obsessed individual ever...period.

                    Dominic Thiem put an old fashioned ass whipping on the number one prima donna in the game. Did he break any racquets? If he didn't I wonder what was wrong. The difference between Thiem and Djokovic? Legs. Twenty-four year old legs versus thirty year old legs. No contest everything else being equal. And equal it appears to be. Thiem has the better service motion of the two. Who has the better forehand...it looked as if Thiem did today. What about the backhand...hard to argue against the one hander. More flexibility.

                    It was a lovely sight watching Novak try to bury himself under the clay the last set. He couldn't get out of there quick enough. He shortened his pre-serve ritual to just a couple of hurried bounces down from the deliberate seventeen or so that he usually employs to numb his opponent and the audience to a state of complete boredom.

                    Sad? Pathetic is more like it. This is professional tennis? I could feel McEnroe biting his tongue. Trying to make some commentary to cover up the fiasco of watching Novak Djokovic tank the third set to the up and comer. It's inevitable. Youth is a wolf nipping at the heels of the older generation. It's catching up and Novak felt the hot breath during the whole match. Remember the ass whooping he put on Dominic recently? It doesn't count. None of it counts. Once they lace up the sneakers it is anybodies game. It was great to see Thiem rise to the occasion and hammer Djokovic without let up.

                    I like the kid. He looks and he acts like a tennis player. There is something just a bit classic about him. Too bad he doesn't have a nose for the net...although he is more competent than most there. At least he doesn't look like a fish out of water.

                    He has beaten Nadal on clay...and recently at that. With this win under his belt and the with the attitude that he exhibited in the post match on court interview...there is one thing for certain. He has the younger legs and I think that Nadal is vulnerable to this as Djokovic was. Thiem pushed Djokovic really hard in Djokovic's first two or three service games. This was really important and it set the tone for the match as later on he was breaking Novak right and left. But he took some of the starch out of Djokovic in really contesting those first couple of serve games. He must do the same thing against Nadal. Make him work really hard on the serve.

                    It's a dreadfully boring tournament. Roger Federer's lack of presence is being felt now. A glimpse of the future of the game of tennis without him. Dark days. The game has run its course. Ever since the equipment change...this has been ordained. They took the art out of the game. Without the art it has become a ship lost at sea. No destination. No idea of what to do next.
                    don_budge
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                    • #40
                      And Thiem is Austrian. Anybody else ever live in Austria? Austrians are really cool. Good at schmunzeling, too. https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schmunzeln
                      Last edited by bottle; 06-08-2017, 06:26 AM.

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by don_budge View Post
                        I like the kid. He looks and he acts like a tennis player. There is something just a bit classic about him. Too bad he doesn't have a nose for the net...although he is more competent than most there. At least he doesn't look like a fish out of water.
                        Yes there is something classical about him. He clearly could have been a decent volleyer but it's an aspect of his game that has, I suspect, never been mined. I like his ability to pull off unexpected winners, especially off the backhand wing. He has tremendous fire power. He clearly has the most variety of all the emerging players, but seldom uses it....he mostly throws rocks it seems. He was up for it today...good luck to him. Very sad to see Novak roll over like that.

                        I don't see Thiem beating Nadal, but we can hope. The great thing about tennis is you never know.

                        Stotty

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                        • #42
                          Thiem's game reminds me most of Stan's. Thiem has a slighly better serve, Stan has a slighly better bh to me. Forehands are about equal. Thiem is the perfect age for this tournament, but he is a big underdog. One would have to bet $455 to win $100 betting on Nadal. Nadal, no matter what some commentators are saying, is simply not as good now as he was 6 or 7 years ago. It will be very interesting to see how many FO titles Thiem can win. I guess there is not much more to say about Nadal's inimitable FO history.

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by stroke View Post
                            Thiem's game reminds me most of Stan's. Thiem has a slighly better serve, Stan has a slighly better bh to me. Forehands are about equal. Thiem is the perfect age for this tournament, but he is a big underdog. One would have to bet $455 to win $100 betting on Nadal. Nadal, no matter what some commentators are saying, is simply not as good now as he was 6 or 7 years ago. It will be very interesting to see how many FO titles Thiem can win. I guess there is not much more to say about Nadal's inimitable FO history.
                            Nadal is not as good as he was (though he has significantly improved since the Aussie Open) but he is still better than anyone else on clay by a margin of around 15%. At his peak he was 20% in front of everyone else. When I say everyone else, I exclude Djokovic who, at his peak, was became pretty close to being equal to Nadal on clay. Thiem is going to have to play very well to beat Nadal...and consistently. Over five sets, that's going to be tough.

                            I haven't watched Thiem enough to compare him accurately to Stan, but Thiem certainly looked a better returner in his match against Djokovic....more aggressive and probing.

                            I quite like Thiem. Of the remaining players, I will be rooting for him most to win.
                            Stotty

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by stroke View Post
                              Thiem's game reminds me most of Stan's.
                              Originally posted by stotty View Post
                              I haven't watched Thiem enough to compare him accurately to Stan...I quite like Thiem. Of the remaining players, I will be rooting for him most to win.
                              Oh yes...Dominic Thiem and Stan Wawrinka. Interesting comparison. Wawrinka is a question mark at times...which Stan is going to show up? For the lesser events. But this is the French Open. Let us pray that he can tattoo the boring, whining Scot. The worst example of a number one tennis player in the world...EVER!

                              Is it Thiem's time? This is the question. I was over at my neighbors house out here in the country...in Sweden. His name is Mats...of course. I will never forget how I met him. I was visiting Sweden for the first time. Meeting my wife for the first time as well. In person that is. We "met" on MATCH. com. Did I mention that? Yeah...what a shot in the dark for good old don_budge. It was before I was don_budge. But my wife and I went out for a walk in the country...getting to know you...getting to know all about you. You know the old song...the old Yul Brenner movie. The King and I. But we walked and walked...it seemed like forever for the city boy. It was actually about four kilometers. We came to this yellow house and there was a tennis court in the field. A Field of Dreams. It was a surreal sight. One that gave me a sense that yes...I could belong here. Something in my gut resonated with the sight of the tennis court. Even if I hadn't touched a racquet in ten years.

                              But anyways Mats and I were talking this morning...I was freaking him out as usual with the "conspiracy theories". Actually the reality of the situation. Federer on drugs? Doping? But Mats needed my help in getting the website to work. You know...the one with the free streaming tennis. But I was saying...Nadal hasn't had a tough match at this point and Thiem is coming off of his biggest victory of his career. A win over the former number one who had beaten him five times in succession. Wasn't the last nearly a double bagel? So here is Thiem with his young legs...legs like a stallion and he also has beaten Nadal the last time he played him. On clay no less. Don't count him out. I look at the draw sheet and see the name Rafael Nadal and I automatically am hypnotized by the theory that he is somehow invincible at Roland Garros. Confidence is a huge factor...as is experience. But isn't Thiem brimming? What is going on in Nadal's noodle? He no doubt so Thiem blitzkrieg Djokovic to the point that Djokovic meekly threw in the towel. Like a pussy.

                              But Thiem has to be licking his lips and trying to contain himself. This is what he has dreamed of his whole life. I hope he has a game plan and I hope that now he is old enough to execute it. I hope he has the steel in his heart and the fire in his belly to see this thing through. It is time for Nadal to go...just as it is time for Djokovic to go. In fact...it is time for the whole stupid game to go. The modern game of tennis. The false paradigm.

                              There are a number of possible outcomes but only one that will serve the best interests of the game. That outcome is Stan Wawrinka versus Dominic Thiem in the final. The one handed backhand. Anything else perpetuates the myth that this stuff is actually tennis. Agree or disagree? Who cares.

                              don_budge
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                              • #45
                                Andy Murray versus Stan Wawrinka head to head...10-7 advantage to Murray overall. Wawrinka leads on clay...3-1. Advantage Wawrinka. Come on Stan...come on.

                                Head to head records for players in men's professional tennis. View rivalry results and stats for matches on the ATP Tour.
                                don_budge
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