Serve Toss Location

[seano]

Interesting topic with differing opinions or are they?. What is the ideal location of the ball toss on the 1st serve? From the viewpoint of being the server, looking at where the toss should be in relation to the body. Should the toss be straight ahead at 12 o'clock or at a 45 degree angle (towards net post)?

Dr. Machar Reid, in an 2016 ITF seminar, recommends that the toss should be in front of the baseline and lined up with the heel of the front foot (if ball were to land). This would promote 1) more shoulder over shoulder rotation 2) higher contact point 3) more internal rotation of the hitting shoulder.

Dr. Mark Kovacs recommends the toss be at a 45 degree angle (towards net post) to better load the rear hip, which is the main power source (his words).

Because the tossing arm and ball flight move on an arc or curve from right to left (right handed), does that mean both are correct? Arm releases at a 45 degree angle but ends up with contact in front but even with front foot heel.

What are your thoughts?

[bottle]

Hah, No One Wants to Answer!

They have fierce opinions but decline to express them. Why? I waited a day.

The toss should be an arc from side to side. The ball should be hit right over the forehead. The toss should not go straight ahead. Nor should it go away from you toward the net post. It should come back toward you. And it ought to be in the same place for first and second.

That Dr. Machar Reid sounds like a nutcase. Land ball by heel of front foot? Crazy! Land it someplace to your left. Ron Waites lands it over his head behind him and to the left on strings of another racket he has set down on the court.

Very extreme of him but indicates a range within which the ball lands to the left.

As I write this, I realize I was probably quick to misunderstand certain stuff in your seano post-- the nature of all communication? If something can be misunderstood it will be misunderstood.

To continue: Who wants more shoulder over shoulder rotation? Replace it with more groin to sternum extrusion like Goran Ivanisevic as described by Mark Papas at the Revolutionary Tennis website. He criticizes Tim Henman for too much cartwheel.

Rear hip as main power source? Insane! Oh, that makes Dr. Mark Kovacs loony too. Sobeit. Mark Papas says rear foot can push a little weight onto front foot.

Well, there are my thoughts. (Remember, I am the most obnoxious person that don_budge ever met.)

[johnyandell]

Humbly Iet me recommend:

https://www.tennisplayer.net/members..._yandell/toss/

https://www.tennisplayer.net/members/avancedtennis/john_yandell/the_myth/the_myth_of_the_toss_images/the_myth_of_the_toss.html

[seano]

John -

Before posing the question, I certainly reviewed your article on the toss that you recommended. Over the last 4 years, I have accumulated quite an extensive library of videos and player strokes that I show my students to help bring home a point I may be trying to explain. A noticeable part of my collection, is of your work, which I feel is outstanding and second to none.
Part of my reason for posing the question was to point out differences that very highly respected people in the industry have about a given stroke. The amount of confusion and contradictions about the best way to teach and the difficulty in knowing who's right and who's wrong. Particularly with all the misinformation that's easily accessible on Youtube. It can get tiresome having to educate students about what's best and wade thru all the B.S.

[johnyandell]

Yep! That's why I stay off youtube. I could get a stroke. Re; the toss. I tend to think that if you have a clear image of the contact point and where you want the ball to be and visualize that and the intersection of the ball and the racket at that spot, you get the toss where you want it. Trying to get the angle right 45 degrees or whatever may be a zillion percent correct but it's too mechanical. I like the image of the contact the image/feeling of the hard full extension of the tossing arm. But to go back to one of your points info resonates and helps different people in different ways! To repeat one of my favorite cliches, teaching is an art...

[johnyandell]

Seano, I think you think you might have offended me by considering other viewpoints! Ha! There isn't enough time in the world to try to get resentful about the thousands of differences in how the game is taught. Either you like it, it works, or you don't and it doesn't!

[seano]

John, offending you never crossed my mind. Was just trying to create discussion, get other opinions.

[bottle]

I'm ignored as usual but ended a match this morning with a good dropshot so what do I care?

[johnyandell]

Seano,
Excellent and as it should be!