Question for John

[gzhpcu]

Since I can not post in the question thread John, (it just hangs indefinitely) I saw I can post by opening a new thread.

Is the trophy position to the serve what the unit turn is to groundstrokes? Thanks

[johnyandell]

No. Everybody gets to the full turn at about the time of the bounce. But there is more variation in the exact timing of the trophy position is relation to the leg coil. It's key not to enter the racket drop before the legs start pushing.
Nick's article in classic lessons discusses:

https://www.tennisplayer.net/members/classiclessons/nick_wheatley/serving_rhythm_serving_stances/

[gzhpcu]

Forgetting the timing for the time: are the two positions essential to initiate the correct biomechanicsl sequence?

[johnyandell]

Forehand yes. Serve, there are several variations of the arm position--trophy poistion so called--the top players don't all reach it at the same time or with the same shape--compare Roddick to Federer. It's about getting to the racket drop and you can get there several ways.

[gzhpcu]

Thanks John

[tennis_chiro]

Forehand yes. Serve, there are several variations of the arm position--trophy poistion so called--the top players don't all reach it at the same time or with the same shape--compare Roddick to Federer. It's about getting to the racket drop and you can get there several ways.

Wouldn't it be fair to say the racket drop is analagous to the SSC and the unit turn position is analogous to the trophy position. You can stop in the trophy position or at least pause there and you can also pause in the unit turn position, but the racket drop and SSC positions are rendered impotent if you stop there; you have to move through both psoitions without stopping to achieve the desired effects, that is to pull the proverbial slingshot a little further back in the case of the racket drop and pre-stress/stretch the muscles of the forearm in the case of the SSC and get the racket head to drop below the ball.

don

[johnyandell]

Sure. But I have never seen a top player pause and can't see how it would destroy things...so far as that term stretch shorten cycle I don't like to throw it around quite so loosely. To me if we know what the model positions are that is more important that the biomechanical explanations.

[don_budge]

Forgetting the timing for the time: are the two positions essential to initiate the correct biomechanicsl sequence?

Forehand yes. Serve, there are several variations of the arm position--trophy poistion so called--the top players don't all reach it at the same time or with the same shape--compare Roddick to Federer. It's about getting to the racket drop and you can get there several ways.

Sure. But I have never seen a top player pause and can't see how it would destroy things...so far as that term stretch shorten cycle I don't like to throw it around quite so loosely. To me if we know what the model positions are that is more important that the biomechanical explanations.

I advocate a 6-point or step process for each swing in the tennis game. Very similar to the Welby Van Horn teaching model...and I believe John Yandell's.

1. Ready position.
2. Set the racquet at the ball.
3. Turn (unit turn)
4. Step to the ball.
5. Point of impact.
6. Follow through.

I refer to position #4 as "get in position" as in get in position to go forwards. It is the completion of the backswing and the transitional point of going forwards. With the serve...position #4 is also completion of the backswing and the position from which the player begins their move towards the ball. I believe this would occur at the trophy position.

These are the essential positions to initiate the correct biomechanical sequence and each step is dependent upon the step done before it.

[gzhpcu]

Hi John, I can not open the long thread to ask you a question. So I have to resort to this thread, though it took me 5 minutes to open...

Please comment on my forehand as it is today.... Thanks...

[johnyandell]

Phil,
Responded directly to your email. Anyone else have feedback for Phil?

[stotty]

Hi John, I can not open the long thread to ask you a question. So I have to resort to this thread, though it took me 5 minutes to open...

Please comment on my forehand as it is today.... Thanks...

What's not to like about it? Lovely turn, step and swing. Fundamentally sound if you ask me. I like the coordination of the forward step into the ball. Everything looks controlled and balanced.

[gzhpcu]

Thanks Stotty..

[bobbyswift]

Looked at it in Hudl. Everything looks really good but as you approach contact your forearm is too supinated and wrist too ulnar deviated. You see this as how below your hand the racket head is

[gzhpcu]

Thanks Bobby, Actually I have a very loose grip and the racket head drops below the level of my hand. I had a tennis pro once tell me to do this. He aven made me play minitennis in the forecourt with a baseball bat, which was so heavy that the bat angled down. Was he wrong in suggesting that? Thanks

[bobbyswift]

I love what I see in your video. What you are saying makes perfect sense and working on it with a baseball bat is a clever idea. I feel that the pairing of your racket below your hand not mixed with radial deviation in the follow thru and more of a windshield wiper finish might not be a great pairing. The movement seems to be the precursor to radial deviation internal shoulder rotation and fore arm pronation. Your finish is correct but not for heavy spin in my opinion.