Forehand, opening shoulders too early

[Guest]

Firstly Happy new year!
How would you correct a forehand where the shoulders are pulling out of the shot too early and the player is then effectively just arming the ball?
I have tried getting the student to focus on keeping the head down, and focus on keeping their arm across longer, even had them try hitting a two handed forehand temporarily, but the problem still persists!
Any suggestions gratefully received?

[don_budge]

Firstly Happy new year!
How would you correct a forehand where the shoulders are pulling out of the shot too early and the player is then effectively just arming the ball?
I have tried getting the student to focus on keeping the head down, and focus on keeping their arm across longer, even had them try hitting a two handed forehand temporarily, but the problem still persists!
Any suggestions gratefully received?

The two handed forehand is always my first answer. Brilliant Mr. Guest! Show them this...it just may convince them.

https://www.tennisplayer.net/members/strokearchive/pro_men/roger_federer_09/rf_forehand/rf_fh_center/rf_fh_center.html?RFFHCenterNeutralStanceFront.mov

Using the right arrow click 29 times until you see the shoulders start to turn for next four or five clicks. Here Roger Federer is using a rather closed stance...I would bet that your student hits with the open stance. This is one of the big drawbacks of learning to hit from an open stance before mastering the more fundamentally correct closed or neutral stance. The rockets have to fire in sequence and premature firing of the shoulders is going to result in an all arm motion...therefore losing a lot of potential energy in the swing.

Back to the two hand forehand...assuming your player is right handed, have them use a forefinger and thumb grip with the left hand on the bottom of the racquet. Start having them release this hand at the hit at first and then have them release earlier and earlier until the right firing stages are engaged. Encourage the use of the neutral or slightly closed stance as well. Fundamentals...fundamentals...fundamentals. First...second...and third.

[don_budge]

Mr. Guest...one more thing: The Key Bone (The Collar Bone)

hockeyscout came up with this in his development of an athlete paradigm and it is truly useful. Like you...I used to refer to the shoulders but have henceforth transitioned to using the term "collarbone". In Sweden they call the collarbone the "nyckelben" which literally translates into the "key bone". I am now very curious as to why they call it thus.

https://www.tennisplayer.net/members/strokearchive/pro_men/roger_federer_09/rf_forehand/rf_fh_center/rf_fh_center.html?RFFHCenterNeutralStanceFront.mov

But in all of our explanations regarding the shoulders it can be a bit complicated for the student as they are thinking of two independent joints when it can be simplified down to one unit...the collarbone. Tell the student to turn the collarbone towards the ball and KEEP IT ON THE BALL until...well the end of time. Look once more at this Roger Federer forehand and try to get a feeling for what I mean by keeping the chest on the ball...I mean keeping the collarbone on the ball. See what I mean. The single best golf swing thought I ever had was given to me by a guy named Sten (which means stone in Swedish) and he told me to keep my chest on the ball. His advice was for bunker shots but I use it all of the way around the course these days...including putting. It's sort of a universal fundamental...if you know what I mean.

[stotty]

Firstly Happy new year!
How would you correct a forehand where the shoulders are pulling out of the shot too early and the player is then effectively just arming the ball?
I have tried getting the student to focus on keeping the head down, and focus on keeping their arm across longer, even had them try hitting a two handed forehand temporarily, but the problem still persists!
Any suggestions gratefully received?

A good thing to do here is to post a video if your student is agreeable. Without knowing his/her level of play it's tough to offer advice. It's sounds like you have covered some of the obvious already. I have posted clips of numerous students in the past and found it's a great way to get second opinions.

Stotty

[Guest]

Thanks so much for your input, some excellent ideas.
don_budge like the idea of slowly taking the hand of earlier bit by bit, it probably eases the transition back to there normal forehand.
licensedcoach like that concept, I tried something similar, i think it was a cue Jack Groppel gives his students 'stay into contact'
One question when you say keep your chest on the ball, do you go as far as after the ball has has been struck the chest stays with the ball or just up to contact?
Stotty, yes that would be ideal.
Love this forum, just looking through some of the posts, there are some very knowledgeable people on it.

[don_budge]

Dancing With the Tennis Ball...

One question when you say keep your chest on the ball, do you go as far as after the ball has has been struck the chest stays with the ball or just up to contact?

Love this forum, just looking through some of the posts, there are some very knowledgeable people on it.

Mr. Guest...keep in mind the grip that I recommended also. With the opposite hand just the index finger and the thumb. This is the grip that the great "original" two hand forehand player Pancho Segura used.

https://www.tennisplayer.net/members/strokearchive/pro_men/roger_federer_09/rf_forehand/rf_fh_center/rf_fh_center.html?RFFHCenterNeutralStanceFront.mov

As for the chest on the ball...tennis is a bit of a dance. When you are dancing the Argentine Tango the man controls the movements of his partner when he is leading with his chest in large part.

Roger Federer in this fundamentally perfect closed or neutral stance forehand clip comes into his split step and then he immediately finds the ball with his collarbone. Right around the 20th click with the right arrow key he starts to turn towards the ball with his "chest" and everything else follows. For the next 14 clicks or so he is tracking that ball with his collarbone until he turns himself sideways to the ball. After another 13 clicks he initiates his swing with a subtle movement with his left hip and the collarbone follows immediately. In 3 more clicks he is going to make contact with the ball and he has pretty much gotten his chest on the ball at contact. At contact Roger keeps his head in position so that the shoulders do not swing wildly over to the other side and in this manner he still has his collarbone on the ball as the ball is rocketing to the other side of the net.

A superb example of shoulder rotation and the timing of the swing. He does the very same thing out of the open stance.

https://www.tennisplayer.net/members/strokearchive/pro_men/roger_federer_09/rf_forehand/rf_fh_center/rf_fh_center.html?RFFHCenterOpenStanceFront.mov

He isn't quite as "square" onto the ball but he is a bit off balance. In any case he maximizes his effort to stay on the ball knowing that this will create the necessary energy for him to accomplish the shot that he has in mind.

Good questions...you will find that the forum is eager to respond to interesting questions. There aren't as many participating these days as tennis seems to have gone into a bit of funk since the Swiss Maestro has been sidelined. He's due back soon...I wonder how much difference it will make at this point in his career. My guess it will be significant...I know that it will on my end.

[Guest]

Yeh you can really see it clearly in the frame by frame analysis