Interactive Forum December 2016 David Goffin Forehand

[rodvic2]

The first thing I noticed is that he does not attack the ball. He hits like a girl. There is nothing special about his forehand. I agree with hockeyscout. Amazing that this Goffin character is #11 in the world. The future of tennis does not look good. I am trying to enjoy Fed, Nadal, Djoker, and Murray before they retire. These are truly great players.

[sjhara]

A wise coach once told me " A players technical foundation influences their tactical options"

Kyle LaCroix USPTA

Totally agree with this as a starting point.
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David Goffin is a terrific athlete who solves the questions of the game with his particular technical and tactical skills. At the same time he has quirks, idiosyncrasies that his athletic talents can overcome, but that also can get in the way of higher levels of play.

I would start with his hands. I’m guessing that Goffin’s forehand blueprint came at an early point in his development and was effective enough at the time so certain things may not have gotten the attention they needed.
Something as simple as a more natural use of his hands would optimize his body’s coiling and uncoiling action. For example, looking at side by sides of Stan Wawrinka’s or Novak Djokovic’s forehand with Goffins, I think shows a more rigid and artificial extension of his left hand as compared with the more natural internally rotated hand movements that Wawrinka and Djokovic use.
Something as simple as this could help to correct such issues as HockeyScouts balance and body rotation and late contact issues and bottle’s hitting hand and being more behind the ball issues.

[johnyandell]

Can anyone point to some specific frames where they see problems? I see a slight guy with some very explosive strokes who is also nimble. I must be missing something.

[stotty]

Can anyone point to some specific frames where they see problems? I see a slight guy with some very explosive strokes who is also nimble. I must be missing something.

You're missing nothing. I posted similar in post 5. The kid is remarkably good. I have seen him first hand. It's exceptional that someone of such slender physique can survive, prosper actually, in today's modern game.

Stotty

An incredibly well-balanced and skilful player in my view. I saw him at Wimbledon earlier this year. A better striker of a ball you will not see. He's built like matchstick. I doubt he weighs 10 stone. But he hits the ball so sweetly and out of the middle.

His forehand is the typically modern type with elbows raising up a little at the start of the backswing. His backswing is a little higher than most coaches teach it so it probably ended up getting that high by itself. I like his forehand, overall.

Stotty

[johnyandell]

Well always up for new input...that is backed up.

[stotty]

The guy has just made the masters in London top 8 players in the world so he must be doing something right!

[stotty]

Hockey scout hes a tennis player not a hockey player,with that a great player as well.Agreed his technique could be better but give the guy a break hes obviously a very talented athlete!

[hockeyscout]

I agree with you 100 percent "coach".

Yes, he is a tennis player. He is no hockey player, definately not up to par athletically to compete at the NFL, MMA, NBA, NHL level - these guys are all big time world class athletes from number 1 to number 1000 (depth is deep). They are animals, freaks and amazing athletes. Trained studs from birth, killers.

I am sorry, but, my standards of acceptance are very high.

Tennis is lagging behind big time, and its having a tough time attracting ballers.

THIS guy is not "world class" licensed-coach. You tend to throw that term around pretty loosely I might add. I don't. Sorry, he's top eight in the world because this is the most watered down group of players the sport has ever seen in the men's game.

I want my tennis players big (6'1 to 6'6), strong, powerful, functional, quick, wide hips - and, in no way does he fit the prototype I think you need to be to win consistently on the tour. I call him a tweener. Yes, a fun sideshow to watch, but, not able to play with the big boys like Sampras, Lendl, Medvedev, Roddick, Borg, Nadal, Federer, ect.

I wonder, in the past twenty years has there ever been a worse world number eight than this guy?

The big four are getting long on the tooth, and the end is near. The new group is VERY unimpressive, and I don't see a lot of STUDS in the Junior ranks right now so the landscape will be pretty barren for years to come.

Felix Auger - Aliassime has a big chance of being a generational player, but he's a 2000 DOB (16), and its going to be at least half a decade. Young Felix looks like a bigger 2016 version of Agassi - except he is bigger, stronger, quicker and VERY athletic.

[johnyandell]

I think everyone agrees that greater athleticism will lead to better tennis players. But you could be as strong and fast as the strongest, fastest hockey player and just the "right" size and not possess the ball striking skills of David Goffin.

[stotty]

Yes, and that's the thing. Goffin is one of the best ball strikers out there. I have witnessed it first hand from just feet away when Goffin played Horacio Zeballos at Wimbledon earlier this year. His timing is immaculate.

When you compare the way Goffin is built to someone like Tsonga, it isn't a fair fight. But tennis is about more than that, a lot more actually. That's why tennis is such an amazing game. The attributes and deficits of players can offset one another.

Stotty

[klacr]

Yes, and that's the thing. Goffin is one of the best ball strikers out there. I have witnessed it first hand from just feet away when Goffin played Horacio Zeballos at Wimbledon earlier this year. His timing is immaculate.

When you compare the way Goffin is built to someone like Tsonga, it isn't a fair fight. But tennis is about more than that, a lot more actually. That's why tennis is such an amazing game. The attributes and deficits of players can offset one another.

Stotty

Its not the size of the dog in the fight, its the size of fight in the dog.

Kyle LaCroix USPTA
Boca Raton

[stotty]

Its not the size of the dog in the fight, its the size of fight in the dog.

Kyle LaCroix USPTA
Boca Raton

Beautifully put....

Stotty

[stotty]

Its not the size of the dog in the fight, its the size of fight in the dog.

Kyle LaCroix USPTA
Boca Raton

That phrase is absolutley spot on.

[sjhara]

I apologize for getting back to this Forum so late but the holidays needed to be celebrated.
So first of all Best Wishes for the New Year to all on this Forum.

It often feels like the top players are leading and we are just trying to catch up.
So where are they leading and why? Is David Goffin’s forehand a “new” modern along with Jack Sock’s and Nick Kyrigios’?

I have put in order variations of forehands. Those above the line have less internal rotation of their off hands, and those below have relatively more. So are those above a “new “ modern forehand. If so what are they gaining and possibly what are they losing with their use of the off hand.
What could be gained is more time, what may be lost is extension and better use of the bigger back and trunk muscles, and the stronger braking action of the off hand.

There is a challenge to compare sequences when we don't know where the player is in the point but that being said:

1. David Goffin
2. Jack Sock
3. Nick Kyrigios
4. Juan Martin del Potro

5) Andy Murray
6) Bernard Tomic
7) Stan Wawrinka
8) Rafal Nadal
9) Roger Federer
10) Grigor Dimitrov
11) Milos Raonic