Question for the tennis, basketball, golf and baseball guru don_budge!

[hockeyscout]

Thanks for the kind words hockeyscout. I appreciate it. You wrote about my rotator cuff in a thread about the serve when I posted my strokes. Although my physical gifts are admirable, my greatest and most fortunate one is my lack of getting injured. I've been very lucky in that regard.

Kyle LaCroix USPTA
Boca Raton

The fighter George St. Pierre's main trainer called me about sending an athlete I trained to Canada. The guy was blown away with my guys foot work, and put him into the projectable category and practicly guaranteed me that my guy would be signed by UFC in six months. The foot work was developed through a lot of good training (just as George's trainer developed his athletes training with a lot of great work on the gymnastic front - George is not a big man, so that works well at his size).

The footwork, balance - its all possible to make an athlete a 10-10 in this area even if they do not have a propensity for speed if you can get them relaxed. But, without a great shoulder, forget it. For my MMA fighter, we took him a long way, but, but, he does not have that magic rotator cuff, proportions and wrist grip strength. That will result in a lot of joint issues, buckling, you name it as he is generating a lot of force from other areas of his body which the shoulders, wrists and elbows cannot handle. To get to where he got to is a major accomplishment in itself, and if he stays out of trouble he will be a good earner as a career coach.

It takes durability for day in, month in and year out competition against the best of the best.

In tennis - maybe you could possibly develop a top tier athlete without klacr's shoulder - but, I am not sure. The Russian's learned a properly developed shoulder would generate speed over short distances, so, you could take a tennis player without much speed and teach them how to not cancel themselves out after they hit and you'd be on the path to something good in the serve and volley department.

Durability is a real important asset - you can't be improving if your not a relaxed athlete or on the injury reserve.

The reason for your durability klacr is simple - you have that magical rotator cuff, you come in and serve and volley which takes pressure off that shoulder and you were a swimmer (which means you fully understand how to relax properly, not buckle your nuerology, elongate properly and fire the small muscles and underlying nueroligical stimulus properly).

I never want my MMA, tennis or hockey players to be taught how to swim, as it creates a few land issues that are hard to fix. But, what I do, is take my athletes into the pool, put them in all types of MMA folds and force them to battle it out for six seconds using there small muscle groups. Its taxing on the body, and hard to get injured.

The big heavyweight fighter I had was so unrelaxed in water, and he'd panick all the time. Heavy man, who always would muscle out of everything which is crazy - its not what great athletes do. I had to teach him to snake his way out of things and uses muscles he did not want to use that would make him a better athlete. Never quit able to get to where I needed to go in that area with him because he was a typical big man who spent a career powering through everything using the wrong activations. But, we got enough done to get to where we needed to go. He'd get out of the pool and be dead, and not even be able to raise his hands or walk on two feet he'd be so tired. His footwork that looked nice, wasn't as projectable or durable as I would have liked. My ten year old, she gets it. A big girl, but, she is learning to generate power and send the proper messages to the brain very quickly. I like teaching young athletes to fight, wrestle and play around in that water because it teaches you relaxed power.

I also have a big seven foot foam pit in the basement, and I throw the kids and they move round and round. Makes them very tired, its fun, doesn't break down the body and its teaching them the right type of power.

[hockeyscout]

The Three Rules for Injury Free Serving...Perfect Motion...Perfect Motion...Perfect Motion

This is honestly one of my favorite posts of all time. I had a lot of fun trying to express this idea. The Gravitational Pull on the Racquet Head. It's a car on a RollerCoaster ride that stays on track.

Love Rollercoaster...The Ohio Players 1975

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBkVV9xxCHE

Ironically...I wrote this for gzhcpu. I am on his "ignore" list. Pity. Life goes on.

Excellent post - thanks for sharing - I like Pancho's serve a lot.

[don_budge]

The Three Rules for Injury Free Serving...Perfect Motion...Perfect Motion...Perfect Motion

don_budge - You're expertise in a wide variety of sports would help here - especially the fact you know baseball well.

“Serve Smart Guidelines” and “Hitting Reps.”

NOTHING IN TENNIS.

I am basically right now listening to what Major League (MLB) baseball coaches are telling me, as no one in tennis has spent the millions of dollars to research this area out like baseball.

Thoughts?

I'd love to hear ideas from 10splayer, klacr, John, Geoff, Bottle, Don, tennis_chiro and others on this important topic.

I think that your concern for preventative thinking regarding injuries is a multi faceted philosophy. While thinking of reducing the risk of injury, at the same time you can eliminate faulty movement from the swing. The perfect service motion is attainable by all with the proper foundation. It's a process and it isn't one that occurs miraculously. What normally occurs is that the student is left to his own devices and comes up with something "homemade". Such was the case with gzhpcu. The thoughtful fellow residing in luxury in Switzerland.

I offered the following "fix" to Phil's maladies in his motion. Some food for thought. There is some interesting comparisons to be made between the service motion and the golf swing. One of the huge factors in both swings is the idea of tempo. Your discussion revolving around Kyle's serve is an interesting one and the revelation that your daughter is using something of a "Roscoe Tanner" motion is interesting as well. I wouldn't recommend it myself...although in the end most anything can work nowadays. Nobody seems to be motoring to the net. Nobody seems to be in any hurry to hit the ball in the air...but if they were I would think carefully about how I would design a motion engineered to go forwards. Instead of retreating. But anyways...it's all just food for thought. Phil-osophizing...if you will.

All we need to do is change the frustrating...to fascinating...Part 2

And this was the follow up...I think I am still talking about physics here.

All we need to do is change the frustrating...to fascinating

I believe that the keys to your service issues can be found in frame #1, frame #2 and frame #3. This setup position in frame #1 will certainly get you off to a poor start in your swing and if you start the swing poorly what are the chances of you finishing it well? In frame #2 you can see how quickly you have jerked your racquet back into position and since you were so quick you have prematurely quit swinging backwards...you have not completed your backswing. The problem is now in full view in frame #3 as here you are waiting in this position instead of arriving at the point where the roller coaster car (your racquet's head) has reached the top of the mountain and is ready to fall behind your back at free fall speed...to initiate the loop in your swing behind you. It’s impossible to arrive at the “pro drop” properly unless you allow your racquet to fall, without hurrying things. It looks like you have tied yourself up and are preparing a rather wild and hurried swing, which is more like a hit than a swing at this point, at the ball...btw, where is the ball?

In frames #4 and beyond...you demonstrate that you have practiced a lot or have been playing a long time because you are making quite a nice swing at the ball and appear to be in pretty good control and in balance. The key word here is “appear” because the problem will magnify itself when you are nervous, when it is windy, when the sun is in your eyes or any other little thing that distracts you. You probably do not have a great deal of versatility in your serve because all of your concentration is focused on getting the service in play. Even some pretty Swiss lady who happens to be watching you play may get you just a little too excited to hold your rhythm. If I know that some pretty woman is watching me serve, I slow my backswing even more...give her the full show, you see. My serve tends to get even better under pressure...because of the slower backswing.

But if you turn over the controls of your service to gravity in terms of the speed and the track of your backswing...you can hold the rhythm under any conditions...even when the nerves are in play, like for instance, when you are serving out the set. Ever notice how difficult that tends to become? Trying to get the horse in the barn...you have got to take your time and have an enormous amount of patience and control. You cannot trust your emotions, your wrist or anything for that matter, the only thing that you can truly trust is the knowledge and the confidence that nothing can go wrong...because you have a perfect swing and beautiful rhythm, because your mechanics are based solely on the law of gravity. If you miss the first serve you can swing even harder with more spin at the second because you know...what are the chances of missing two in a row? Practically zero. Some days second serves can turn into a real adventure can't they? And why? It's because of the doubts...that faulty rhythm and mechanics can produce.

I watched The Masters golf tournament this weekend...I think I enjoy watching golf more on TV than tennis, I don’t know why I tend to find tennis boring to watch...maybe it is the lack of style nowadays. Perhaps it's the beautiful rhythm of the swings that holds my attention...they mesmerize me. But one thing about the golfers...every single one of them is virtually identical in their backswings. Why is that? That is because the ball is teed up or lying still and they have the time to make the perfect backswing. You can see that none of them are in any particular hurry to finish their backswing because they are gathering all of the resources of power and control that they possess to use the force of gravity together with the motion of their arms and body to control the club head. They get themselves into perfect position at the top of their swing and without hurrying things they allow gravity to initiate their downwards motion to deliver such a sweet and crisp contact at the bottom of their swing on the ball.

Since we are serving...it is the only time in tennis that we have total control of the ball, we can tee it up with our toss, maybe we should learn a bit from the golfers and take our time in the backswing so that we can get ourselves (mind, body and soul) under control to make the most powerful, efficient, controlled yet effortless swing that we can. Sort of like Richard Gonzales...but within our limitations, Phil. Just like the golfer we are trying to gather everything in our power to make the ultimate contact with the racquet head on and through the ball...but instead of the swing climaxing at the bottom of the swing as a golfer does, the serve is climaxing at the top of our swing. Isn't that rather interesting?

I can see that you have plenty of ability and that you are in really good condition...in three or four hours I believe I could get all of your resources together, in harmony with the universe, to make a gravity based swing at the ball. Depending upon your flexibility...to change.

And to make a long story short...incorporate Don's figure 8´s. I remember doing those exercises religiously before practicing my serve back in the old days.

A description of the Pancho Gonzales serve…

The Gonzales service is a natural action that epitomizes grace, power, control and placement. The top players sigh when they see the smooth, easy action. There is no trace of a hitch and no unnecessary movements. I have never seen a serve so beautifully executed. The toss is no higher than it has to be and it is timed so that he is fully stretched when he hits it. The backswing is continuous and the motion of the backswing blends into the hit and continues into the follow-through without a pause..

Like you...I am a huge admirer of the Gonzales serve...and he obviously knew his "metaphysics".

Perhaps the singular most impressive aspect of the Richard Gonzalez service motion is the aspect of tempo. From the description the author attributes "grace, power, control and placement" to the motion. You no doubt have read my axiom about power and control many times. The question being..."What is Power?". The answer is..."a combination of speed, spin and placement". A slow methodical tempo offers the method from which each of the elements of control can be maximized. A quicker tempo like klacr's or Roscoe Tanners may somehow cast the illusion of power...as in speed...the fact is that serving is more than power. It is "pitching" to a receiver and this is much more sublime than merely trying to overpower your opponent. You must take into consideration things like which delivery or motion offers the most in terms of variety of spin and even deception.

Thoughts? I thought you would never ask.

[don_budge]

It's always one more thing..."one point in time and space".


The concept of "It". The one place in time and space where everything is perfect.

One more thing..."it"

So there is always one more thing. After the student has mastered his "figure eights" and developed a gravity based and frictionless swing and the wrist is behaving itself...the whole thing is dependent on one more thing. Putting the ball in the path of the traveling racquet head. This can be very disruptive to the whole process.

There is basically one point in time and space where it all collides simultaneously, and perfectly...where the grip, the motion and all of the generated energy meet the ball. Any deviation from this one point in time and space will produce less than "perfect" shots as energy and potential energy will be wasted or erratic.

I call this point "it". Musicians get it...the whole craft depends upon it. Golfers get it. Tennis players get it. Great oraters get it. Anybody who successfully and repeatedly is accomplished in anything in any walk of life gets it. It's too bad more people don't get it...have you ever known anybody who just doesn't get it. But...it is not so easy as that when you are trying to deliver the ball to that one point in time and space in order to put the ball right where the ball should be, and when the ball should be there. When and where...time and space.

As tennis players, this in the end, is the object of our craft also...we seek to find that one point in time and space where everything is perfect. This relates to our serves, our groundstrokes, to those of us hitting the ball in the air still it relates to our volleys. It relates to every single type of shot under the sun. The quest as it were, is to get the grip right, get the feet, body and racquet into position, and then move all the responsible parts to get the racquet head to meet the ball the way we intend it to when we attempt any particular shot. The ultimate challenge for a human being is to have that kind of control over ones self to master such an endeavor. This is why golf and tennis are God's gift to humanity in terms of at recreation...possibly even more significant than that. There are physics, in a "perfect" world and there are the metaphysics in the real world as we know it. Rod Cross is great but he has left a huge variable out of the equation while focusing on some others. But don't get me wrong, he is fine in a certain sphere of influence, I think.

Perhaps a new thread...and a couple of more videos from Coach Don on the toss...in order to assist the student to find "it". Excellent job, Coach...btw.

[klacr]

Consistency, Tempo, Rhythm, Flow.
The best ability is availability.

Kyle LaCroix USPTA
Boca Raton