2016 Shanghai Rolex Masters...ATP 1000...Shanghai, China

[klacr]

Two months and a fine...better than nothing I guess. Six months would have been better...and a way bigger fine that gets redirected and ploughed into Australian junior tennis.

Stotty

I'm not condoning it, but I can handle the punkness and brash demeanor. I can understand the trash talk and the temper.

But what is unacceptable to me and where the problem lies is when Kyrgios jeopardizes the integrity of the sport by fully and obviously tanking a match. Say what you want about some other bad boys in tennis, they respected the game enough to still compete and not quit. His attempt was far from that. The other issue is when a player of his talent and ability comes out publicly and says that he doesn't like tennis and that he is bored. This does not speak highly of the game and sends a bad message to the youngsters who grow up looking for some inspiration. What other sport would you hear that in? Have you ever heard major sports stars Lebron James, Michael Jordan, Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, Mike Trout, Bryce Harper, Jaromir Jagr, Patrick Roy ever say they were bored or didn't like the sports they compete in? Never.

Respect the game, love the game.

Kyle LaCroix USPTA
Boca Raton

[stroke]

Two months and a fine...better than nothing I guess. Six months would have been better...and a way bigger fine that gets redirected and ploughed into Australian junior tennis.

Stotty

I feel the ATP would have probably been better served doing nothing than what they did. This to me is ikind of like the NFL throwing a flag, after a somewhat dirty play, for offsetting personal foul penalty penalty against both teams. Just silly.

[hockeyscout]

,

I'm not condoning it, but I can handle the punkness and brash demeanor. I can understand the trash talk and the temper.

But what is unacceptable to me and where the problem lies is when Kyrgios jeopardizes the integrity of the sport by fully and obviously tanking a match. Say what you want about some other bad boys in tennis, they respected the game enough to still compete and not quit. His attempt was far from that. The other issue is when a player of his talent and ability comes out publicly and says that he doesn't like tennis and that he is bored. This does not speak highly of the game and sends a bad message to the youngsters who grow up looking for some inspiration. What other sport would you hear that in? Have you ever heard major sports stars Lebron James, Michael Jordan, Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, Mike Trout, Bryce Harper, Jaromir Jagr, Patrick Roy ever say they were bored or didn't like the sports they compete in? Never.

Respect the game, love the game.

Kyle LaCroix USPTA
Boca Raton

Kyle, he is not Lebron James, Michael Jordan, Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, Mike Trout, Bryce Harper, Jaromir Jagr or Patrick Roy.

He's Kyrgios, a 21-year-old kid who struggles to make it into the top 10 - 20.

Tennis is devoid of great athletes, and studs.

There is not much depth.

If he misbehaved in hockey there would be 500 guys able to take his spot.

Guys come and go in the big leagues.

In tennis they stay a LONG time. Not much talent in the pipeline. These Challenger pro tours that come through Ukraine are crazy to watch. The level of athletism of players in the 500 to 1000 + range is just so, so, so bad. My MMA fighters watch them and go, "These guys are frat boys, and not athletes."

In hockey, the number eighty player in the game could be number one, but, he's missing something small. The difference between number 1 to 100 to 1000 in tennis is just massive. It's insane. In hockey, baseball, basketball, soccer - its practically nothing.

Sorry tennis guys, but you're stuck with Nick whether you like it or not.

It's something we accept in other sports - we're stuck with this A$$h*le, until someone comes along better. In hockey you can always trade away your problem to another team, and hope to hell your player does not change his ways and make you look like an ass. Vancouver once trades away a kid at 21 with a cocaine issue, and at 23 he was one of the best players in the league and got his act together. Boston traded away another player who screwed around with players wife's, and, now he is one of the best players in the league.

Be VERY cautious with these young kids and let them screw up and take it on the chin. All the interference, speeches and tough talk won't help - when they figure it out they will sort it out. It part of the process.

What makes perfect sense to a 40 year old Kyle Lacroix, is martian talk to a 21 year like Nick. The kid needs to sort it out, and Kyle has 19 more years experience figuring it out.

I know many hockey players who mail it in like Kyrgios.

And, worse.

He seems okay Nick, and doesn't have a lot of major issues that won't get rectified.

Zherdev, Gaetz, McCarthy, Kane, Richard, Fluery, Viazmikin, Kovalev, Tatarinov, Daigle ... so many guys who has the ability to be top ten in the league, and had drug, criminal, alchohol, fitness and other issues.

Like seriously, tennis is a clean sport.

How often do you guys see players getting in trouble like Evander Kane?

They are far from bad boys.

Hockey players would kind of laugh at a guy like Nick trying to act cool.

He's not in there league of badass, trust me.

Bottom line, you tennis coaches don't realize how lucky you are to be working with the kids you work in.

Try coaching a hockey team, or dealing with MMA fighters.

You'd be shocked.

My god, the war stories I could tell you guys.

Nick just had a bad day at the office ... worse stuff happens in the NFL and NBA.

He's not such a bad kid.

[klacr]

,

Kyle, he is not Lebron James, Michael Jordan, Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, Mike Trout, Bryce Harper, Jaromir Jagr or Patrick Roy.

Exactly. And he never will be. Thank you.

Kyle LaCroix USPTA
Boca Raton

[hockeyscout]

Nick Kyrios may end up being great, or he might not.

We just don't know.

We tend to forget the bad times that athletes suffered through in getting to where they needed to get to in the end.

Interesting you bring up Roy and Jagr.

Bit of backstory on both:

Jaromir Jagr floated completely through his term with the Washington Capitals and was not better with the New York Rangers. I know a guy who played with him, and he said, worst teammate ever. No teams in the NHL wanted him around there young kids in 2008 when he went back home. One day on the bench, a 19-year-old linemate Alexei Cherepanov came back from a shift and died of a heart-attack. Jagr, turned the corner right there. He's a model teammate now, and changed man.

Patrick Roy - great goaltender, but I don't have much respect for the guy as a human being what so ever. When he was in Montreal he told the team's owner to screw himself, and walked out on his teammates. What he did - pulling himself from a game, returning to the bench and confronting the team president was never done before, and it was unprofessional his conduct.

To many of us are to quick to judge, and assume.

We don't know what is happening behind the scenes with Nick.

He's a young kid, and he will figure it out.

I was a bit taken aback after his win with the "expert tenni$" coaches in Australia coming out and slamming the kid for not winning in the Grand Slams. You'd think they'd encourage the kid, and say he is on the right path, keep it up and we're all behind you, thick - thin and good and bad. But, no, they rip him. That doesn't help. What I think happened is the kid did not have the emotional maturity to deal with it, and thought that he'd finally be accepted and given a pat on the back. Instead they throw him under the bus. He's a boy still, and it's going to take time for him to sort it out.

Nick is like all of us, he will eventually figure out he wants to do it for Nick and learn to be his own man on the tour.

He did not want to play the tournament, couldn't tell the ATP officials and it all blew up on him.

The "adults" are a bit to "serious."

Every athlete is so different, and you really need to take differing approaches with them.

If my oldest daughter was acting like Nick, I would be concerned because she doesn't have much talent and can't afford off days. I never see it, my ten-year-old is more disciplined than communist hockey players, so that is good. She gets 1% better all the time, and the numbers add up over time. Old school, big, strong, aggressive but, not gifted.

My youngest one of the two, she is insanely talented in everything she does (tennis, MMA, piano, reading, you name it), and I already know her pathway will be a very interesting one (much like Mr. Jagr's, etc). That younger one is a free spirit, and rebel, like Nick and her old man daddy, and I am sure it will rub people the wrong way. But, whatever, she will get to where she needs to get to just as Nick Kryios will in time.

Everyone is different. Accept it. Good, and bad.

Patience folks.

Nick Kyrios ain't doing something bad like Hilary Clinton - or the drugged out competitors he is playing against every day.

He's okay.

Just needs some encouragement to follow his own pathway, and a lot less judgment.

I get the feeling no one is there looking out for the kid and trying to help.

Hey, don_budge, fire the kid Nick Kyrios an email, offer your services, go on the pro tour with him, let the kid be a kid, work it out with him and have fun.

I am sure you best understand being a free spirit yourself how to put some fun back into the game for the kid.

Us free spirits arrive when we want to arrive.

You may be the only guy who gets it.

The MMA kid I worked with - I think a big reason on why he became the MMA champion of Russia and Europe is after lessons - workouts I’d take him to eat (talk, talk and talk), over to the house (we’'d watch MMA on TV), take him to the arcade, bring him to the tennis courts to train my daughters, fishing and the guy even lived with us.

I only got mad at my MMA fighter once - and that was when he went out at 4 am in the morning and crashed a car a couple of weeks ahead of the fight. I told the guy, "Go home to Africa. Bye." He got mad and challenged me to a fight in the middle of the tennis courts. I said, "You'd better beat me to death right now with your fists right now, cause if I survive, remember, I like guns, and my daddy once told me there are no rules in a street fight. Round II buddy will have a whole new set of rules. Let's fight, I don't care."

The tennis players, and everyone else we're running for the hills that day. We're both heavyweights. I would have done okay I think. I think the two of us understood each other 100 percent every day. Funny, after that he got more disciplined, and really started to achieve his potential as a fighter. What changed the tide for him was a call back home to mama in his Cameroon (it's a small African country) where she said: "I really like that white man! He is right. You're a baby. Look, go be nice to him, and you'd better get down to work, and not come back to mama back home with nothing kid." Good woman. Most great fighters have superb mama's.

That was what the kid needed to hear - (1) don't go home to your mama with nothing, and (2) there are no rules in a fight. It turned him around, somewhat, he is a still a work in progress.

A perfect storm - something will happen with Nick Kyrios, and I am sure he will turn the corner.

[klacr]

I grew up a big Maple Leafs fan, I would have used Mats Sundin, Wendall Clark or Dougie Gimour as examples but thought it would be too esoteric for the forum regulars.

Kyle LaCroix USPTA
Boca Raton

[don_budge]

The Perplexing Case of Nick Kyrgios...

Nick Kyrios may end up being great, or he might not.

We don't know what is happening behind the scenes with Nick.

Everyone is different. Accept it. Good, and bad.

Patience folks.

Nick Kyrios ain't doing something bad like Hilary Clinton - or the drugged out competitors he is playing against every day.

I am sure you best understand being a free spirit yourself how to put some fun back into the game for the kid.

Us free spirits arrive when we want to arrive.

You may be the only guy who gets it.

But what is unacceptable to me and where the problem lies is when Kyrgios jeopardizes the integrity of the sport by fully and obviously tanking a match. Say what you want about some other bad boys in tennis, they respected the game enough to still compete and not quit. His attempt was far from that.

Respect the game, love the game.

Kyle LaCroix USPTA
Boca Raton

You make some good points hockeyscout. Some great points actually. Your experience in scouting athletes obviously gives you an intuitive look into the head of Nick Kyrgios. I actually like the bad guys. I find redemption in their "me against the world" attitudes. Back against the wall...fight to the bitter end.

The flip side of the coin is klacr's poignant observation about his quitting in the middle of a tennis match...or was it the beginning. He violated the first rule of respect for your opponent in any sport. When you are participating in an athletic contest you owe it to your opponent to give it your best...win or lose. Good day or bad. This is the key to life...do your absolute best. Show up and play. Nick fell amazingly short of this for an Australian tennis player. Australians have a long history of being the fabled example of this...this first and foremost of the Golden Rules in tennis. It is why Harry Hopman is the coach of my teaching paradigm. He absolutely instilled this into his players.

This is where Nick Kyrgios loses me. His contempt for the sport actually. His contempt for his own ability and talent. I think he is in serious need of some mentoring and it may just be too late. He may end up being a great player and he may not. The real question is...what is he going to end up as a human being?

A lot of people look at impossible situations and throw up their hands and just say "what a mess". A very few look at such a situation as an opportunity to make it right. This is what I like about the comments from hockeyscout. Never give up on your player. But this one exhibits one trait that is deplorable by the old tennis etiquette...the one that I discussed. The point that klacr so astutely points out. As bad as John McEnroe behaved...he never quit. At least I never saw him quit. Richard Gonzales the same. The heart of a wild beast.

But Kyrgios more or less violated the primal law of the jungle here and he is paying a heavy price. It's good to reprimand him now and he needs help like you say...hockeyscout. My favorite accomplishments in teaching tennis is taking the wayward individual...the impossibly bad student and make them into something. One of my favorites was taking a fat, pudgy little loser at the age of about 14...I watched his antics for some time and began to understand his deal. I pulled him aside and gave him a talking to that changed his life. He went on to receive a tennis scholarship from the university that I went to. A small victory as it goes...but it made a difference in the kid's life. You need these kinds of tickets to get to the promised land.

I wouldn't give up on Nick Kyrgios...but I would take a page out of Hopman's book and give him a talking to that changes the course of his destiny.

[klacr]

Hopman would have taught him a lot. From day 1. If Hopman were alive today and saw what Kyrgios did in Shanghai, it would have been well understood and communicated that things like that will only happen three times. First Time, Last Time and Never Again.

Kyle LaCroix USPTA
Boca Raton

[hockeyscout]

Hopman would have taught him a lot. From day 1. If Hopman were alive today and saw what Kyrgios did in Shanghai, it would have been well understood and communicated that things like that will only happen three times. First Time, Last Time and Never Again.

Kyle LaCroix USPTA
Boca Raton

Hopman might have ruined the kid as well and taken away his spirit. Harry may have backed off, and let nature take its course. We don't know.

Nick is not an athlete you go - 1, 2 and 3 with, or you will fail.

Every athlete different.

A coaches approach needs to be tailored, and measured.

I'd like to ask the kid - "What happened? Why? And, what's next?

And proceed from that point.

He said something interesting - "What kind of coach would put up with me not wanting to practice?"

I would. Granted it would be tough, but, the kid has things that could make him a number one contender, so it would be worth the hassle. He is not a "great" player yet, so, I would temper expectations. I can't even begin to tell you the things I had to go through with my MMA fighter who achieved world-class status. These guys are human, and it's a tough path.

IMG did well with Agassi, and let Andre be Andre.

And, lest we forget the trouble he got into as a kid (Agassi).

At 30, Andre became a pretty seasoned and hardened pro's pro.

He cut the hair, lost the stupid neon, found a nice girl and closed off his career with the class his father envisioned.

There are no big cardinal rules in sport - these kids are human and they are going to screw up. We all did, and fortunately it was on an international stage. There are times where everyone gives up, in some aspect of their lives and quits.

Nothing is wrong with that in my opinion f you learn from it.

Now some people are real DUMB - me included, and I may make an error 20 times. I know the stove is hot, but ... well, you get the picture.

There is nothing we can do as coaches or parents to rush the process - when the athletes get's it they get it.

Preaching our values and beliefs is not going to help the kid at all.

He'll have to develop his own way, and make it his own.

There is a real danger in over-preaching to young kids, and imparting advice.

Talk to an 85 to 95-year-old about life, lessons and advice, and 99 percent of them will say nothing and tell you, "You'll find your way, enjoy life."

I got lucky in a way having an MMA fighter to work with because I have to say nothing to my kids - I speak to them through this guy and they see how his actions help - hurt his career.

I was real fortunate to have a few young hitting partners along the way just like Nick Kyrios who failed badly in their careers - it allowed my kids to see where it can all go wrong. And, it's obvious. The funny thing is these guys know why they failed, and they are like alcoholic who just can't help themselves whatsoever. One kid I had was top five in the country, but, his weakness was he was a real good looking kid. If you can believe it, woman used the guy for sex. He'd get a call at 11 pm at night from a good looking girl who knew he had practice at 530 am the next morning. She would not care. This lady would feel powerful because he was showing up late, and getting him in trouble. In short, this girl brought him down to her level. Every been with a woman, and things are going superlative and all of a sudden there are major problems out of the blue? Yup, that's it. I told the guy once, you need a girl who is driving you to tennis at 530 am. He never quite grasped it. Agassi was similar - I read his book about Brook Shields, and boy, she was not a positive asset. But Graf, that woman made a champion out of him. Lucky for Agassi he never met or dated her when he was 23 to 26, because, he was just not ready for her.

And, Nick is just not ready yet to fulfill his promise.

Give him some time and he will get there.

You can learn from the best, and you can learn from the worst, and it's all good.

This bad experience will shape this kid into a better player.

Ukraine is kind of like a bucket of crabs, everyone likes to pull anyone trying to get out of the bucket back in. It's tough. You have to have great habits, be your own person, a free thinker, a bit of a rebel and a will of iron to be successful.

Pro tennis is the same. Lots of people who want to bring you down. I'm glad in a way he is a free spirit - when he understands how to channel that to his advantage he will take off.

I have a trainer friend who works with an NBA player on contract in the summer - FREE SPIRIT. In the summer he goes to the disco, parties and brings home a different girl and bangs her till 4 am. Well, his trainer was clever, he literally lives with the guy, 330, kicks the girl out of the house and they go into the home gym - basketball court and practice between 4 am to 7 am. Then the guy goes and sleeps till 5 pm, trains him from 5 to 7, scrimmages with the boys and throws the guy back to bed till 10 pm or midnight, and then his party time begins. It works well for that guy, and he's one of the best players in the league. Trainer is there 24-7, babysitting the guy, cooking for him and making sure he is not drinking. Its worked out rather well, and the free spirit still does what he is naturally inclinded to do and is getting tons of sleep.

Just remember, it took Agassi ten years on the pro tour to get it.

I know don_budge hated Agassi, but, I am pretty sure if he was in the guys corner late in his career when he could not get out of bed anymore because of a bad back and watching him at home with his family he would have actually liked the guy he became in the end.

[stroke]

I'm not seeing much of parallel between a young Agassi and Kyrgios. I never remember Andre just quit trying and in doing so disrespecting the game and the fans. I don't remember him going off nonsensibly on his box.

[klacr]

That's what made Hopman a great coach. He would have figured a way to handle Kyrgios, but would have done it in a way that Coach Hopman wanted but made Kyrgios believe it was for him as a player. Then again, maybe a player like Kyrgios never would have gotten to this level of petulance if Hopman were still around and in charge. We will never know. Interesting thought though.

Kyle LaCroix USPTA
Boca Raton

[hockeyscout]

I'm not seeing much of parallel between a young Agassi and Kyrgios. I never remember Andre just quit trying and in doing so disrespecting the game and the fans. I don't remember him going off nonsensibly on his box.

Agassi was a wild man.