Forehand Grip and Hitting Stance

[vmiller]

Hi John, how's it going?

Strangely enough, I hit with a 4 / 3.5 grip and typically prefer using a neutral stance.

Click here if you wish to see a clip of it.

As you may see, my unit turn is moderate which is why I think the neutral stance doesn't feel "akward" to me. However, I've recently been working on lengthing my swing (it's quite compact as you can see), and part of this is a bigger unit turn. But when I make the bigger turn, I can clearly feel the "akwardness" you refer to with the neutral stance.

I think the moderate unit turn allows my hips to stay more open when I step in, therefore keeping them more out of the way of my upper body rotation. However, when I take a larger unit turn, my hips close more, and my step in gets closer to a closed stance.

So, do you think it's reasonable for people with more extreme grips to use a more moderate unit turn to be better able to step into the ball? Or does my clip show the "akwardness" you refer to even though I don't feel it?

Vin

[johnyandell]

Question: why do you want that grip?

[vmiller]

Well, I didn't really pick it. I was taught to play with a semi western back in high school and I guess the 4 / 3.5 was my personal adpatation of it.

To be honest, I like the grip and think that it works well for me and goes well with my game. I like to hit hard, but when all else fails, grinding is what I'm best at and with this grip, heavy topspin is second nature to me, and like you said in your article, I can still flatten the ball out when I want to. I know you think topspin is overrated at the rec level, but it really is a big part of my game. I can hit nice angles, dip the ball to the feet of volleyers, hit defensive loopers with ease, and drive people crazy on the baseline who are not used to deep balls that bounce high. And another consideration is that I have a lot of fun ripping topspin forehands. I admit that I have yet to beat a 4.5 player, so maybe you know something I don't about the higher rec levels relating to this grip, but at 3.5 and 4.0, it works very well for me.

For a while, I actually tried hitting with a 3.5 / 3 grip, which is the Fed grip I guess, and can see how it's easier to hit through that way. I liked that grip when I was using a Volkl (they have a flatter grip shape), but now that I'm playing with a more normal grip shape, I've subconsciously migrated back to my original 4 / 3.5 grip and think I'm happier that way. I think playing with the more traditional grip hurts my topspin ability more than the extreme grip hurts my ability to hit through the ball.

So have I earned your mercy or are you still going to urge me to switch? I don't want to be close minded. I will give the 3.5 / 3 another chance if you think I really should. USTA leages are over for now, so it's actually a good time of the year to experiment.

Did you happen to take a look at the clip?

[johnyandell]

Yep. The stroke looks pretty good. But I think you're right--if you really try to coil it all the way, you are going to get somewhat blocked coming back the other way.

This means you need to either twist against your foot or rotate your foot off the court or hit a lot of balls that aren't super high open stance.

At the level you are at the ball isn't going to be at your shoulder with searing topspin. But yes you have earned my mercy. We play because we like it right? So if that is your grip god bless.

Just not sure what your exchanges are like--if you hit thru the court and what about the depth thing--which is really the key to winning from the baseline. I can relate to the grinding thing--personally I'd rather grind than lose as well. Just not positive you couldn't have it a bit more both ways. You could go Agassi not Fed as an experiment.

But the main thing I would say is improve your turn. You could then adapt that turn to your current grip or experiment, but life is too short not to coil on the forehand.

[vmiller]

Thanks for your feedback John.

My typical exchanges: I can hit deep all day if I aim higher over the net and hit at 60% - 80% pace. I can hit effective aggressive drives when I'm on, but if tired, or not hitting cleanly, I am susceptible to hitting short and spinny. I'm trying to develop a steady rally ball in between the aggressive drive and the higher deep ball, but am not quite there yet.

I took your advice to the court today with my ball machine and gave it 500 tries! Wasn't happy with the full 3 for the heel pad, but did have success with my heel pad being a bit closer to a full three than normal.

After looking at some video, it appears that the two guys I remember you mentioning using the 4 / 3 grip (Agassi and Blake) are not fully centered on 3 either. Do you agree? Actually, my normal grip, which I said was 4 / 3.5, is not exactly that and is already closer to the 4 / 3 than the 4 / 4. So if I'm evaluating the video correctly, I wasn't far off at all from the Agassi grip to begin with. Do you happen to have any close-ups from the butt cap view?

Thanks for your advice. Even though the adjustment I made was pretty small, I still think it has the potential to help me alot. It seemed a lot easier to hit deep drives with the heel pad just a bit higher. And I will certainly work on my shoulder turn. Life is definitely too short not to get all the power you can out of your strokes.

[johnyandell]

It's tough to tell--it's possible the heel pad is a little lower. Most of the shots I see look like solid 3s but a few do look a little lower. It's even possible it's slipping a little for him--it can be slightly fluid I think. In general though I'll stick with my view.

That rally ball you are talking about should come first! You probably need to slow everything down and just match pace.

[vmiller]

I attached an image of Keifer. The grip in this image seems to be the same as most of his other clips I looked at. If you accept his heel pad position as a 3, then I am there as well, especially with yesterday's adjustment. Just wanted to be sure because without your clarification, I would have unknowingly considered this a 3.5!

Yeah, I hear you about slowing down. For me, that requires a lot of discipline, which I'm working on. Lately, when I take my ball machine out, I count how many times I hit targets. That seems to help because I obviously slow down a bit to get the target more often.

By "match pace" do you mean to just match the pace of the incoming ball?

[johnyandell]

He has the racket head dipped which is actually characterstic of the more conservative grips. If it were level it might look different, but then again it could be slightly lower 3.25?? Like I said in the article all we really need is for me to be able to walk on court during a match and take some still pictures...