A New Teaching System: Forehand: Body Rotation

[johnyandell]

I am just making statements of fact. Even as recently as Sampras you can see rotation of about 90 degrees in the forward swing with the shoulders finishing parallel more or less to the net--about half the pro forehands in the article. There is a confluence of factors that has led to the elevation of contact and increased rotation of current players. Again just a fact.
But most players even at quite high club and NTRP levels are staying or should be staying mostly on the ground and that's why this particular pro factor isn't a good model element.

https://www.tennisplayer.net/members/strokearchive/pro_men/petesampras/ps_forehand/ps_fh_center/ps_fh_center.html?PSFHCenterFront1.mov

[don_budge]

Engineering versus Evolution...

I think it's like a lot of things in coaching. If you execute x and y correctly then z just happens on its own.

I have always taken a leaf out of Bruce Elliot's book:


"So if you are a teaching pro reading this article, do you need to tell your students any of this? Please don't. You'll create absolute havoc. This is information that you store in your head that enables you to know how to teach people, that enables you how to notice what is happening and to look for errors."

- Bruce Elliot



What interests me when comparing players from the classic era to today's players, is, is it the equipment facilitating the modern forehand or is it the game progressing? Are the techniques employed today possible with a wooden racket? Could players rotate as much, hurl themselves, and flip forehands?

Looking at the clips in the article, it is amazing how much players do rotate and drive upwards. I am so conditioned to having my feet firmly planted that I simply cannot do what they do.

Stotty

I watched the video a couple of times. In the past I have made transcripts in order to draw as much meaning as I can from the audio. But here it isn't necessary except to highlight this quote by John Yandell which is either a slip of the tongue or a poor choice of words. It is Stotty's questions that necessitates pointing this out.

Of course it is only the equipment that allows these "rodeo" swings of the racquet on the forehand. It is the equipment that has engineered finesse and the finery completely out of the game. It is only the equipment...human beings have not evolved at all in the past forty years or so. If anything...they have surely devolved.

John says in the video..."this evolution has effectively doubled the (torso) rotation compared to the old classical forehands."

This line I find offensive as well as misleading. When I say offensive I don't mean personally but perhaps in a common sense sense. First of all...the classical forehands of the past are not old. They have only been relegated to the dust bin and the object of our scorn because of brain washing and social engineering. The introduction of over-sized graphite racquet frames change everything including the physics of what is possible in swinging a tennis racquet at a moving tennis ball. Any arguments out there that the 100% plus area in the racquet face allows for more margin of error and therefore more contortion of the actual body movements? What a bad joke. These guys struggle to find the sweet spot and I would kill to see a high speed video study as to where these guys are meeting the racquet face with the ball on a statistical basis. You see in nearly all of these video shots that the balls are meeting the racquet face just about anywhere. Have you ever hit a topspin forehand near the frame of a Dunlop Maxply or a Jack Kramer Autograph? I have.

There isn't any evolution going on here. It's engineering and only engineering. Plus the usual social programming. The answer to the question of "could players rotate as much, hurl themselves, and flip forehands?" is...can monkeys fly out of your butt?

The video itself is great. It really captures the object of the lesson. There is an old golf rule of thumb that says..."don't try to make shots that you don't know you can make." It is only new equipment that gives the tennis player this new lease on how to swing a racquet. If anything the swings were better in the "old classical" way with respect to efficiency and effectiveness...given the difference in the size of the racquet. Novak was given a wooden racquet to play with and he couldn't find the face of the strings with his forehand. I would love to see him under attack by a John McEnroe in his prime trying to play his little game of mousey defense. McEnroe would eat him alive...with much less body rotation.

[stotty]

I think it's like a lot of things in coaching. If you execute x and y correctly then z just happens on its own.

I have always taken a leaf out of Bruce Elliot's book:

So if you are a teaching pro reading this article, do you need to tell your students any of this? Please don't. You'll create absolute havoc. This is information that you store in your head that enables you to know how to teach people, that enables you how to notice what is happening and to look for errors. - Bruce Elliot

What interests me when comparing players from the classic era to today's players, is, is it the equipment facilitating the modern forehand or is it the game progressing? Are the techniques employed today possible with a wooden racket? Could players rotate as much, hurl themselves, and flip forehands?

Looking at the clips in the article, it is amazing how much players do rotate and drive upwards. I am so conditioned to having my feet firmly planted that I simply cannot do what they do.

Stotty

[johnyandell]

Agreed! BUT the question is how does this happen? What I have seen time and time over a couple of decades is the conscious effort to "fire" the hips has the exact effect intended--it throws the uncoiling of the chain completely out of sync.

[seano]

Great subject matter and I'm sure up for lots of debate. My feeling is that if you are trying to generate pace, you need a rotational movement where you rotate your core around the axis of your spine. This movement is initiated by the knee and hip and travels up the kinetic chain. I love phrases to quote. Tim Mayotte , describes "the key element in the "modern game" is the separation of power sections of the kinetic chain", producing incredible power.
You need to lead with the opening of the rear hip to help produces torque, tension and lag through out the kinetic chain to create all this effortless power. The rear hip leads and everything follows after, using opposing forces. If you're hitting defensively or neutral, not looking to add pace, you don't need a full rotational swing, a more linear motion is fine.

[johnyandell]

Would love to discuss my latest article, "A New Teaching System: Forehand: Body Rotation"