Interactive Forum: Racket Head Speed

[johnyandell]

This is a great discussion. I think many interesting points have been raised, a lot of them having to do with complex issues of how the body and the kinetic chain work.

I want to make a couple of points that are a little simpler. The first is that the happenstance of how these clips were filmed actually shows us the pattern of acceleration.

Note that for both players the frames are clear and the racket advances in small, consistent increments during the backswing. This changes when the butt of the racket starts forward to the ball.

That's why the images blur. There isn't a high speed shutter. So as the racket moves faster it's too fast for the camera to see clearly. Hence the blurr equals racket head speed.

Obviously these are two very different balls. But note that the closed racket face happens before the real acceleration, and that the racket has come back on edge or partially on edge before that blurr starts forward. Sharapova actually closes the face somewhat, though not as much as Roger. But note Roger's ball is very low. That makes the closed face appear more prominant in this ball. Compare this to the Stroke Archive.

To me this is the role of a key position. The closed face may play a role but it only works if the racket squares before it starts forward.

The other point is that we lose the blurr a couple of feet after contact. When the racket becomes clear again that shows that the speed has dropped greatly. As is becoming better understood, the followthrough and the wrap serve as the deceleration phase.

That's all for now, more later!

[NeilArcher]

Neiltennisman

Wow...that is all great stuff. I love to hear from other tennis enthusiasts looking at the same thing and trying to figure it out. I believe that confidence and racket head speed go hand-in-hand. If you are going to swing big you have to believe that it will go in. Mike Agassi allowed Andre to find it...how many teaching pros are allowing their clients to find it? I have always wondered why some pros teach their players to catch their follow through out in front about mid body and shoulder high. Everytime I run into one of these players it takes me months to get them to let the follow through go, and still in the midst of competition doubt creeps in and they catch the racket too soon of course slowing the racket head to do so. I always ask them if they would slap their hand as hard as they could with there racket? "No!", they say. Then you must be slowing it down to put it into your hand!? Of couse this not Maria and Roger's issue, but it is the future of our players in the US. Let your young players experience the freedom of a full swing. There's more...always more

[shootermcmarc0]

Federer has more racquet speed due to the prestretch. His swing is more efficient and effective as a result.It all do with the position of the wrist in the preparation and keeping a loose grip. That simple.

It seems like a lot of people are mentioning a stretch, I'm a little confused at what point you guys feel he is stretching, or prestretching for that matter. Are you talking about his chest stretching before the forward swing when his non-dominant arm "pace-cars" across his body? John, any thoughts on the stretch idea these guys are talking about?

[johnyandell]

I need more education myself, to be honest. Greg Ryan are you out there??

But basically it's another way of describing what happens to the muscles before they contract, and is associated with the various key positions in the strokes.

[gzhpcu]

It seems like a lot of people are mentioning a stretch, I'm a little confused at what point you guys feel he is stretching, or prestretching for that matter. Are you talking about his chest stretching before the forward swing when his non-dominant arm "pace-cars" across his body? John, any thoughts on the stretch idea these guys are talking about?

IMHO: Not sure what the others mean, but one body link which is being stretched is the arm. If you watch Roger's forehand carefully, at the bottom of the swing, prior to coming forward, he supinates his forearm (causing wrist and racket to rotate towards his left) and at the same time moves his right hip forward. This causes a stretch in the arm, like a rubber band, it seems to me, causing his racket to fly forward faster towards the impact point.

[jhm36]

What Phil said.

It also looks to me like Federer's pulling his left shoulder backward further and more independently of the general torso movement/rotation than Sharapova, making his chest open-up/stretch more than hers.

To my eyes it looks like Federer is getting more his body involved in the rotation process while Sharapova is getting a higher percentage of her speed/power by driving with the right shoulder. That could be because of the different natures of the balls they are hitting or maybe true of most of their shots or something else. I haven't checked for that.

Anybody else see things that way?

I know people have written about movement of the opposite arm, but has anyone looked in detail at just the opposite shoulder and its effect on the entire ground stroke swing? I've been trying to get more backward pull/compression on the opposite arm of my one-handed backhand. I think I'll experiment with it on the forehand side the next time I'm on the court. (I bought a tennis tutor prolite ball machine last month and I'm loving it. Great asset to working on/experimenting with strokes. My regular partner, however, is VERY annoyed with the improvement. )

[shootermcmarc0]

It also looks to me like Federer's pulling his left shoulder backward further and more independently of the general torso movement/rotation than Sharapova, making his chest open-up/stretch more than hers.

I noticed the same thing too, his left elbow and shoulder are pulled back further than most people when he finishes his forehands. Seems to happen the most when hes hitting short balls or crushing balls around the baseline.

[carrerakent]

easy answer

whip...

swing a solid object, then swing a whip with a "whipping" action...biomechanists might not call it that, but it's obvious that federer whips the racquet. when the connection point is accelerating and the object (racquet) momentarily stops, it must accelerate tons to catch back up.

federer's racquet stops its forward motion at the point that he lets his wrist "collapse" back...everything else is still accelerating forward..once the flexibility of the wrist is reached, it snaps it forward...then he deliberately brings the wrist through the ball...

the biggest problem with most people's strokes lies in the lack of relaxation that is necessary to reach high racquet head speeds.

don't muddy the water with forearm rotation etc...those are all just biomechanical elements of whipping it. a 4 year old kid in the back yard with a stick can accomplish massive swing speed by whipping...but most tennis players never do.

[tennisplayer]

Hey folks, here are my observations - my first post in this forum!

Sharapova's stroke seems to be a more "classical" one - somewhat flat, and not much wrist action. The spin probably comes from the closed racquet face at contact (although the force of the contact seems to be opening it a bit), and the slight upward movement of the racquet.

Federer's stroke is much steeper, and at the point of contact there is a lot more low-to-high movement than forward movement. There is a huge amount of wrist action, but it doesn't look like a forward snap. It looks more like a low-to-high snap, not a back-to-front snap. This and the forearm pronation starting from the initial supinated position is probably what is contributing to the tremendous racquet head speed. The outward push of the racquet, starting from the body, must also contribute a huge amount of speed. Looks like Federer is loading all the big muscles, and the wrist, at exactly the same time, and let them all go at once!

[jlkm2219]

Looks like Federer is loading all the big muscles, and the wrist, at exactly the same time, and let them all go at once!

Federer is the perfect model of optimizing mechanics. His effortless strokes makes anybody think that playing tennis is so easy. I compare his forehand with Sampras: classical, powerful, heavy, deadly....
Obviously, Federer hits the ball more in front that Sampras, but in both players seems to me that rhe racquet is an extension of their bodies.

About Sharapova, I don't like her shots. She hits too flat and, in my opinion, her strokes lack of the grace of, for example, Henin or Clijters.

[JanWaechli]

wip-stik

for all those who do not understand the wip action:
a wips sound is kreated because the end off the string moves faster than the sound. try this with a stik!!!
so if you move your body like the handel of a wip, and your arm and rist like the string, then imagine how much more power you create.(elastic lag)

for catching the racket with your left hand in front of you: this has been a typicall thing of all the great tschec tennisplayers like lendel, korda...
it does not have anything to do with loosing power!!!,but it prevents your body from over rotating .( pulling to the side in the contact zone) if federer plays poorly, he usually has a lot of frame hits, which are mostly caused because his racket pulls out of the contact zone too early.( vh to the left)
you may also notice this phaenomen in importent points, wehn you get a so called "short arm".

by the way, this subject is actually much better coverd by golf books, then tennisbooks.

and what is this nonsens about why maria gets less power then fedi!
shes a girl!!! sorry all you ladys out there...

[shootermcmarc0]

I guess one other thing to define is what a "relaxed wrist" is because it varies per individual. I found that when I tried to relaxed my wrist, it was too loose and the racquet would actually spin in my hand. The funny thing is at first, I blamed it on worn out overgrips, but then it kept happening even when I wrapped a new one. So now I'm back to a more firm wrist, and will continue to practice the fundamentals and experiment with the looser wrist later down the road.

[jhm36]

Yeah, I have some trouble finding the sweet spot on my racquet and the thing often twists in my hand so I end up firming up the grip to compensate.

Speaking of loose grips, I once broke a nice racquet while serving with a too loose grip. Racquet flew out of hand and cracked on the court. Man, was I ever bummed out. I liked that racquet. My first decent one. ProKennex 5g.

[JanWaechli]

loose rist -loose grip

i just can not resist responding to this.
a loose wrist is not a loose grip.
try a wipping motion with a medium firm hold, and it should work.

[shootermcmarc0]

i just can not resist responding to this.
a loose wrist is not a loose grip.
try a wipping motion with a medium firm hold, and it should work.

Yeah I know, I found that out the hard way