First Strike Tennis At All Levels

[arturohernandez]

well the stats are right about the avg, but the avg match is a mismatch and as you say, good serving really skews the avg. result.
Maybe to get a more realistic perspective on normal rally length, you should throw out any point where the returner doesn't hit a neutralizing ROS. This would have the effect of still pointing how the importance of a good serve, but give a more accurate look at how a point really goes once it isn't controlled by the serve. This is a way to say a point by mostly washing out "the serve effect".

Craig also breaks it down by age and by gender. Pretty much across all ages and both genders the average rally length is 0-4. Even for women and girls. There are some subtile differences with women and girls not being as dominant in the second serve. I think even Serena is barely above 50% for second serves. Whereas Nadal is much higher than that on average.

Craig's big idea is that everyone looks to practice lengthening rallies. But, in effect, practicing good percentage serving, returning and what he calls serve+1 and return+1 would help to improve how well people could compete.

I have tried this with my daughter where in some cases we work on serving and returning a lot before a tournament. In general, this tends to shorten points but my sense is that it improves the outcome in that she tends to put more pressure on her opponents.

She also neutralizes their serves and thus can be more aggressive on return+1.

He has a lot of data and they seem to point in the same direction. But it is against what we think practice should be. Specifically, people rally or play practice matches. Craig thinks this makes practices too long.

He thinks people should practice serve, return and the +1's a LOT more. This would have the effect of reducing practice time and maximizing results. Again, very antithetical to what people have been preaching in the tennis development world.

[stotty]

well the stats are right about the avg, but the avg match is a mismatch and as you say, good serving really skews the avg. result.
Maybe to get a more realistic perspective on normal rally length, you should throw out any point where the returner doesn't hit a neutralizing ROS. This would have the effect of still pointing how the importance of a good serve, but give a more accurate look at how a point really goes once it isn't controlled by the serve. This is a way to say a point by mostly washing out "the serve effect".

My point would be not all players are looking for short points. It isn't necessarily a game plan per se. It's a consequence of things, such as powerful serving, as you pointed. Someone like Novak, against many opponents, would be looking to lengthen rallies as it works in his favour.

[teachestennis]

In junior tennis you can get very long rallies, but you also get lots of early unforced errors, which brings the average down. There is certainly no tactical intent to make rallies 2 or 3 strokes long as a game plan. This is probably true of the pro game also. Once players get into rallies then the rallies can be fairly long. It's the big serving that surely brings the averages down.

I have never charted matches for their rally length. I watched a mini orange final last month, which was essentially just three tiebreaks. It lasted 45 minutes and the rallies were humungous.

I am not sure I believe the stats. I have seen some bloody long junior matches where one can't overpower the other, and there is no way the average rally is just 2 or 3 shots.

well the stats are right about the avg, but the avg match is a mismatch and as you say, good serving really skews the avg. result.
Maybe to get a more realistic perspective on normal rally length, you should throw out any point where the returner doesn't hit a neutralizing ROS. This would have the effect of still pointing how the importance of a good serve, but give a more accurate look at how a point really goes once it isn't controlled by the serve. This is a way to say a point by mostly washing out "the serve effect".

[stotty]

In junior tennis you can get very long rallies, but you also get lots of early unforced errors, which brings the average down. There is certainly no tactical intent to make rallies 2 or 3 strokes long as a game plan. This is probably true of the pro game also. Once players get into rallies then the rallies can be fairly long. It's the big serving that surely brings the averages down.

I have never charted matches for their rally length. I watched a mini orange final last month, which was essentially just three tiebreaks. It lasted 45 minutes and the rallies were humungous.

I am not sure I believe the stats. I have seen some bloody long junior matches where one can't overpower the other, and there is no way the average rally is just 2 or 3 shots.

[J011yroger]

Have the best serve and return you can. Who isn't doing that?

The people who spend 45 minutes of an hour lesson playing mini tennis and hitting groundstrokes, 5 minutes on volleys, the last 8 minutes on serve before they say pick up the balls and I'll see you next week.

J

[johnyandell]

Not sure everyone understands this but Craig does.

[teachestennis]

. But his data base goes exponentially beyond that. It sitll works because you are able to see percentages that are meaningful.

We often see comments like this about First Strike data, but where are these meaningful nuggets? Have the best serve and return you can. Who isn't doing that? Try to get the point started to your advantage early. Did we need these stats for that? Did someone not realize that you can't break serve if you don't make returns? Help me out. What is meaningful here?

[klacr]

love-40...



Case in point. Yesterday your favorite player Tomas Berdych playing against Alexander Zverev in theand trailing 4-6, 3-5 worked the Zverev serve game to 0-40 and managed to lose the game and the match. Tough game...after Zverev evened it at deuce they went back and forth with the advantage before Zverev sealed it.

The confidence factor is big as faultsnaces mentioned...or was it klacr? If you can make your opponent struggle on his serve a couple of times. If you make him struggle all of the time you cause him to think...perhaps to doubt a bit.

It is amazing though what confidence in one's serve can do for the return game. It opens the door somewhat on the opponents serve game Berdych really made Zverev work to serve out the match. I didn't see the rest of the match and I wonder how hard he made him work on the other games and how much he struggled on his own serve.

Was hoping no one mentioned Berdych after yesterday's loss.

First tourney back from his Appendicitis episode. He'll be back in full force very shortly. And he needs to be. He is currently on the outside looking in for the race to London.

Kyle LaCroix USPTA
Boca Raton

[don_budge]

love-40...

"Old school" tactics Or "Timeless" tactics?
Any player, any era... needs to follow this.

Kyle LaCroix USPTA
Boca Raton

Case in point. Yesterday your favorite player Tomas Berdych playing against Alexander Zverev in theand trailing 4-6, 3-5 worked the Zverev serve game to 0-40 and managed to lose the game and the match. Tough game...after Zverev evened it at deuce they went back and forth with the advantage before Zverev sealed it.

The confidence factor is big as faultsnaces mentioned...or was it klacr? If you can make your opponent struggle on his serve a couple of times. If you make him struggle all of the time you cause him to think...perhaps to doubt a bit.

It is amazing though what confidence in one's serve can do for the return game. It opens the door somewhat on the opponents serve game Berdych really made Zverev work to serve out the match. I didn't see the rest of the match and I wonder how hard he made him work on the other games and how much he struggled on his own serve.

"Old school" tactics Or "Timeless" tactics?
Any player, any era... needs to follow this.

Kyle LaCroix USPTA
Boca Raton

Case in point. Yesterday your favorite player Tomas Berdych playing against Alexander Zverev in theand trailing 4-6, 3-5 worked the Zverev serve game to 0-40 and managed to lose the game and the match. Tough game...after Zverev evened it at deuce they went back and forth with the advantage before Zverev sealed it.

The confidence factor is big as faultsnaces mentioned...or was it klacr? If you can make your opponent struggle on his serve a couple of times. If you make him struggle all of the time you cause him to think...perhaps to doubt a bit.

It is amazing though what confidence in one's serve can do for the return game. It opens the door somewhat on the opponents serve game Berdych really made Zverev work to serve out the match. I didn't see the rest of the match and I wonder how hard he made him work on the other games and how much he struggled on his own serve.

[klacr]

Old School Tactics...



Absolutely...hold your serve! Hold your serve...hold your serve...hold your serve. The key to the game.

This is the other half of my "old school" tactics. Hold your serve as quickly and efficiently then try to bleed your opponent on his own serve. Win the first point of the return game...at all costs! If you win that first point it changes everything. Then go for the jugular on the second. If you've won the first point of the game you are either at 0-30 or 15-15. Bleed him at any rate...no gimmes. No Xmas gifts! No missing.

Chip away at him...take a swing when the opportunity arises. But make him work just as hard as you can...on his service game.

"Old school" tactics Or "Timeless" tactics?
Any player, any era... needs to follow this.

Kyle LaCroix USPTA
Boca Raton

[don_budge]

Old School Tactics...

Good options Stotty and don_budge.

Another way and one of my favorites, Hold your own serve. Effectively using a Serve +1 and a few quick service games from you and your opponent has the pressure put right back on them. The ability to serve and hold comfortable has a deep impact on the psychology of your opponent as well as their tactical options moving forward.

Kyle LaCroix USPTA
Boca Raton

Absolutely...hold your serve! Hold your serve...hold your serve...hold your serve. The key to the game.

This is the other half of my "old school" tactics. Hold your serve as quickly and efficiently then try to bleed your opponent on his own serve. Win the first point of the return game...at all costs! If you win that first point it changes everything. Then go for the jugular on the second. If you've won the first point of the game you are either at 0-30 or 15-15. Bleed him at any rate...no gimmes. No Xmas gifts! No missing.

Chip away at him...take a swing when the opportunity arises. But make him work just as hard as you can...on his service game.

[klacr]

Kyle, I would add that being confident in ones' own serve also has a deep impact for ones' return games: when I am confident with my serve game - confident in being able to hold - it gives me great confidence to attack when returning: I will make more errors, maybe even give away a game or two, but long term it shakes the opponent's confidence in their serve and results in breaks....

I think the core idea is super fundamental, singles and dubs: confidence serving is a foundation for being able to attack and win, serving and receiving.

Agree. And why should one not be confident in their serving? It is the only shot we have 100% complete control of.

Kyle LaCroix USPTA
Boca Raton

[faultsnaces]

Kyle, I would add that being confident in ones' own serve also has a deep impact for ones' return games: when I am confident with my serve game - confident in being able to hold - it gives me great confidence to attack when returning: I will make more errors, maybe even give away a game or two, but long term it shakes the opponent's confidence in their serve and results in breaks....

I think the core idea is super fundamental, singles and dubs: confidence serving is a foundation for being able to attack and win, serving and receiving.

[klacr]

Good options Stotty and don_budge.

Another way and one of my favorites, Hold your own serve. Effectively using a Serve +1 and a few quick service games from you and your opponent has the pressure put right back on them. The ability to serve and hold comfortable has a deep impact on the psychology of your opponent as well as their tactical options moving forward.

Kyle LaCroix USPTA
Boca Raton