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Western and Southern Open...ATP 1000...Cincinnati, Ohio USA

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  • Western and Southern Open...ATP 1000...Cincinnati, Ohio USA

    Roger Federer in the House?

    Nope. Once again he take another step into the post Roger Federer Era of tennis. It's that culmination point of 2016/2017 that good old don_budge has been emphasizing for a number of years. What will tennis be like when the "Living Proof" of the don_budge teaching and coaching paradigm of tennis is gone. By the way I am making a movie about this paradigm. Coming to a theater near you...in the future.

    But at any rate...here's the draw. You will notice that there is no Roger Federer but there is Andy Murray at the top and Stan (No Show) Wawrinka on the bottom. Rafael Nadal and Milos Raonic in the corners. No Novak Djokovic either. He's playing it cagey...who need another ATP 1000 or an Olympic Gold Medal. He wants nothing but Slams. No Juan Martin Del Potro either.

    Official singles, doubles and qualifying draw from the tournament archive in men's professional tennis on the ATP Tour.


    Gael "The Amazing Mr. Monfils" Monfils is in the house. Curious to see what kind of "damage" he can do here.

    don_budge
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  • #2
    "The EverReady Energizer Bunny"...David Ferrer

    The year 2016 is the year when "The EverReady Energizer Bunny" lost his juice. It has been a year of steady decline. He changed his racquet. He changed his coach. He wasn't able to change the direction of his downwards spiral. Here is a list of the players and there rankings at the time that he has lost to:

    Ilya Marchenko #94...Qatar
    Jack Sock #26...Auckland
    Andy Murray #2...Australian Open
    Nicolas Almagro #72...Argentina Open
    Dominic Thiem #19...Rio Open
    Alexandr Dolgopolov #32...Acapulco
    Lucas Pouille #88...Miami Open
    Tomas Berdych #8...Madrid Open
    Lucas Pouille #52...Rome Italian Open
    Marin Cilic #11...Geneva Open
    Tomas Berdych #8...French Open
    Gilles Muller #44...Ricoh Open
    Andreas Seppo #40...Halle, Germany
    Nicolas Mahut #51...Wimbledon
    Albert Ramos-Violas #35...BĂ„stad, Sweden
    Evgeny Donskoy #84...2016 Olympics

    It hasn't been for lack of effort though. But clearly at 34 years old...there is something about the body that sort of gives in to Father Time in life on the professional tour. You might ask Roger Federer about this-


    don_budge
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    • #3
      Between dodging the rain, this tournament has not has a lot of excitement yet. With Roger out, I doubt any tourney will muster the same energy. There was a great match yesterday between Dimitrov and Feliciano Lopez. Really fun to watch. Today Dimitrov plays Wawrinka. Something that may get me watching.

      Kyle LaCroix USPTA
      Boca Raton

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      • #4
        I was at the tournament on Tuesday through the rain delays. Saw one very good match with Tomic vs Sousa. Tomic won in 2 very good sets. I was again very impressed with Tomic's game seeiing him in person. I could not help but think a guy like Sousa, who is a very good player, probably would not even be on the tour if he had Tomic's movement. Tomic really had his way in most of the rallys. Tomic is really not that bad of a mover, he does not just move as well a the better movers on the mens tour. But his short backswings on both sides(about the shortest collectively that I have seen) along with his hand skills make him a pretty unique player. Then he actually fought back the next day and beat a very tough Goffin in 3 tough sets, after losing a very long 1st set. Who knows, maybe he is going to make a change.
        Last edited by stroke; 08-18-2016, 06:04 AM.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by stroke View Post
          I was at the tournament on Tuesday through the rain delays. Saw one very good match with Tomic vs Sousa. Tomic won in 2 very good sets. I was again very impressed with Tomic's game seeiing him in person. I could not help but think a guy like Sousa, who is a very good player, probably would not even be on the tour if he had Tomic's movement. Tomic really had his way in most of the rallys. Tomic is really not that bad of a mover, he does not just move as well a the better movers on the mens tour. But his short backswings on both sides(about the shortest collectively that I have seen) along with his hand skills make him a pretty unique player. Then he actually fought back the next day and beat a very tough Goffin in 3 tough sets, after losing a very long 1st set. Who knows, maybe he is going to make a change.
          I just wonder that his game is too flat. He relies on his hands a lot on his forehand side, and though he his skilful, it must be tricky to produce that type of game day in and day out. Connors was a flat hitter and consistent with it but his forehand was very firm on contact. He never used his hands on the shot like Tomic. I have seen Tomic play well but he rarely gets a succession of wins in a tournament. That said he is a set up against Nishikori as I write.

          I just love Tomic's backhand down the line. It's a beauty.
          Stotty

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          • #6
            The best thing about the event is wandering around with the high speed camera.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by licensedcoach View Post

              I just wonder that his game is too flat. He relies on his hands a lot on his forehand side, and though he his skilful, it must be tricky to produce that type of game day in and day out. Connors was a flat hitter and consistent with it but his forehand was very firm on contact. He never used his hands on the shot like Tomic. I have seen Tomic play well but he rarely gets a succession of wins in a tournament. That said he is a set up against Nishikori as I write.

              I just love Tomic's backhand down the line. It's a beauty.

              Agree completely about that backhand. It is top shelf. On a side note, to me, his one handed slice backhand is about as good as I have seen for a 2 handed backhand player. Funny you brought up his down the line backhand. During the Sousa match, Sousa kept drifting to his backhand side to hit inside out forehands, which a LOT of players like to do. Time and time again, Tomic calmly with seemingly routine effort took it right down the line for a winner, since Sousa was giving up so much court to hit that forehand. Sousa was visibly and loudly upset about this but just kept on doing it. I like the way Tomic does not bother to run around shots to hit a prefered side. Much more efficient.

              Regarding his forehand, to me, he can hit with plenty of top when he wants to, just as he can really clock that forehand when he wants to. He just seems to me to not be the typical player that hits the ball hard/spin with a lot of effort just for the sake of doing it.

              Could be a very interesting match with Murray tonight. Obviously once again, Tomic will be giving up a movement advantage. Backhand and serve pretty even, I actually like Tomic's forehand better. Both have great feel.
              Last edited by stroke; 08-19-2016, 04:03 AM.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by stroke View Post

                Could be a very interesting match with Murray tonight. Obviously once again, Tomic will be giving up a movement advantage. Backhand and serve pretty even, I actually like Tomic's forehand better. Both have great feel.
                Yes I wonder how Tomic will tackle that one. He cannot afford to be defending for sure. I just think Murray's defence and shot tolerance is tough to match even if Tomic plays close to his best. Murray has never been better than of late. It will take a lapse from Murray (which has been known) for Tomic to win one feels. I look forward to the game, however.

                Stotty
                Stotty

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                • #9
                  Strange tournament Cincinnati. Crowd attendance is very low and they hardly ever seem to clap. Maybe it's just the audio on my Mac, but it is an eerily quiet tournament. In the UK, crowd attendance is always high for any tournament whatever time of day the matches are.

                  Stotty
                  Last edited by stotty; 08-19-2016, 11:56 AM.
                  Stotty

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by licensedcoach View Post
                    Strange tournament Cincinnati. Crowd attendance is very low and they hardly ever seem to clap. Maybe it's just the audio on my Mac, but it is an eerily quiet tournament. In the UK, crowd attendance is always high for any tournament whatever time of day the matches are.

                    Stotty
                    Its rained every single day there. Been a terrible week for scheduling. Oh, and Roger and Novak are not there. Tough circumstances for fans and officials.

                    Kyle LaCroix USPTA
                    Boca Raton

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                    • #11
                      Having been there, the continuous rain had a huge effect on the size and enthusiasm of the crowd. Not to mention the parking lots on the golf course nearby that turned into mud bogs! Filming was great! And actually got a chance to watch Coric Nadal. I was impressed by Borna--even if Nadal seemed impotent... I think he is the real deal for top 10.

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                      • #12
                        Good performance from Cilic. He plays well, doesn't he? I like his aggressive style of play and the tempo he plays at. I find him very watchable in that regard.

                        Stotty
                        Stotty

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                        • #13
                          The 2016 Western and Southern Men's Singles Final...Marin Cilic defeats Andy Murray

                          Originally posted by licensedcoach View Post
                          Good performance from Cilic. He plays well, doesn't he? I like his aggressive style of play and the tempo he plays at. I find him very watchable in that regard.

                          Stotty
                          Almost flawless. He seized the initiative at every opportunity and played with very little margin for error. Why not? Everything was going in.

                          That service motion is worth its weight in gold. When he is on the opponent is on the defensive from the very get-go. Some have opined that Milos Raonic has the best serve in the game...I prefer Cilic's motion. I think that he could easily be trained to follow that motion into the net. He was returning exceptionally well too...being aggressive. His match against Murray in the finals was textbook and you know who the book is. He maintained pressure on Andy Murray constantly and never let up. He served for the first set at 5-2 but was broken...and it wasn't as if he changed his approach. He went down gunning and missed a couple of times. However he served the set out at love the next try.

                          I watched only the first set and I was impressed by how many opportunities he had to move in and close the net and finish things. I am not aware that he did it even a single time. I know he was at the net but he passed up so many opportunities as Murray was forced to play a lot of defense just trying to stay in points. One of the commentatoes mentioned that Cilic was "taking time" from Murray. Good call buddy...Cilic had Murray on his heels a majority of the time.

                          His return to form comes at the perfect time for him. He is on target for the U. S. Open...the scene of his greatest success. He has game that's for sure. He is capable of giving the top players all that they can handle. He has played Novak Djokovic as tough as anyone on some rather big occasions.

                          don_budge
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                          • #14
                            Cilic was too good. His match with Dimitrov finished at 1:35am Sunday morning. Showed up fresh for his match and nothing Murray could do to stop him. An all out assault from the big Croat. Looked like his 2014 US Open self.

                            Kyle LaCroix USPTA
                            Boca Raton

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                            • #15
                              Andy Murray...marginally diminished?

                              Originally posted by klacr View Post
                              Cilic was too good. His match with Dimitrov finished at 1:35am Sunday morning. Showed up fresh for his match and nothing Murray could do to stop him. An all out assault from the big Croat. Looked like his 2014 US Open self.

                              Kyle LaCroix USPTA
                              Boca Raton
                              Originally posted by klacr View Post
                              Murray wins 2nd gold medal. Pretty damn impressive. Say what you want about Murray (I'm not as huge fan of his game) but he is a helluva player and competitor.

                              Kyle LaCroix USPTA
                              Boca Raton
                              Marin Cilic was undoubtably very, very good on Sunday to bounce back from that late night affair with Grigor Dimitrov on Saturday. I got up early as usual here in Sweden and I was amazed that they were still playing. The match ended here at 7.35 AM Sunday morning.

                              Last Sunday down in Rio De Janeiro, Andy Murray was slugging it out with Juan Martin Del Potro into the wee hours. Andy came back the very next week and gave it a valiant effort at the Western and Southern. If you consider the logistics involved...the travel, the sleep, the meals...everything. It was a tremendous effort.

                              Cilic no doubt was the beneficiary of the logistical demands on Andy Murray and he certainly capitalized on them. I think that if Andy is only marginally diminished against an aggressive player firing on all eight cylinders like Marin Cilic was it obviously to his disadvantage. The draw sheet will never reflect any of this and it is the nature of the game. But as you say...Andy is a great tennis player and he has come a long way in the competitor trait. Even though his behavior doesn't always look that great on camera he does come to play and I don't recall him going into the tank...except maybe with the possibility of against Novak Djokovic when Djokovic really seemed to have his number. He isn't my favorite player either but he is making strides.

                              Last edited by don_budge; 08-22-2016, 10:17 PM. Reason: for clarity's sake...
                              don_budge
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