Going Wipeless as Never Before

[bottle]

My main, one could almost use the word "primal" experience in sports is rowing not tennis (an appropriate sentiment perhaps in that the Rio Olympics are taking place right now). Just as I say in this thread that I used video to teach my people to row better when I was a crew coach, I now HAVE to say that when I competed myself nobody ever bothered to film us except the captain's father of when we went into our kamikaze final sprint up somewhere in the stratosphere to win the Dad Vail Regatta for the first time (North America's largest). Captain Bill Engeman's two sons, both of whom subsequently rowed in the national lightweight eight, have had to watch that super-8 film of a heavyweight eight with four midgets aboard more times than they care to admit. Anyway, we didn't use film back then yet did well winning three Dad Vails and practically the IRA (Intercollegiate Rowing Association annual championship) until the University of Washington coxswain, the one-legged Wolfkilt, took his hands off of his rudder to avoid rudder resistance thus cutting us off so we almost ran up on the rocks at Onondaga State Park. One of his eight oarsmen was unconscious, don't you see. (We just drove past that finish line on the New York Thruway the day before last.) Avery Brundage saw that race finish and invited us to the Olympic Trials a month later on the same lake, but the Naval Academy had overtrained us and we lost to crews we had beaten before.

Okay, that's my peak sob story in sports. But I am not so dumb as to not know it was a pretty good achievement done without the benefit of video or film.

[gzhpcu]

Yes, bottle. Fine and dandy. But where is the beef? Why so shy about uploading a video clip? I am no spring chicken, but have uploaded strokes for others to comment on and give improvement suggestions.

[bottle]

Yes, bottle. Fine and dandy. But where is the beef? Why so shy about uploading a video clip? I am no spring chicken, but have uploaded strokes for others to comment on and give improvement suggestions.

"Shy" is your obnoxious word. Why not just imitate a chicken and say "buk-buk-bukkety-buk?" That's what playground jerks do. Are you trying to be Donald Trump? Want my birth certificate from Englewood, New Jersey too? I also would like you to be honest and tell us if your uploaded exposure led to significant improvement in your tennis game. Do you get your racket tip lower now when you serve? Really? A bit more honesty in follow-up is perhaps something that this website needs.

Also, I see my strokes as existing in constant transition, again a conscious decision-- at least to dream more and even relegate certain times during the day for coming up with unexpected experiments. The process can never be automatic. Inspiration comes in unexpected ways and only to persons who keep themselves open to having it. Most people don't ever change their strokes. They keep them where they are.

But the "beef," that overused expression from Fritz Mondale, doesn't come in this discussion from me-- you are right about that. It comes from don_budge and Stotty. And I note that you totally ignored their assertions, just went after me again. I think I'll call that lack of response shyness or reticence or perverseness if not constipation.

I add to this SERIOUS conversation (well, it should be) my strong feeling that camera work freezes time besides flattening some subject out. And I don't want to flatline time when my tennis is the subject. Also, I wouldn't want to photograph Allah. There could be repercussions.

Have I made myself clear? Perhaps not. I won't submit film of myself-- no matter how much you folks beg and beg and beg and then beg some more-- because the film itself would freeze me in mid-development, something I'm quite sure I must never allow to happen.

[gzhpcu]

Yes, John Yandell has helped me with his analysis of my videos (see under Your Strokes). Calm down, am not begging. Just wondering, but I can figure things out fine based on your answers buried in a flood of circumlocution... So let's just forget it...
.

[bottle]

Yes, John Yandell has helped me with his analysis of my videos (see under Your Strokes). Calm down, am not begging. Just wondering, but I can figure things out fine based on your answers buried in a flood of circumlocution... So let's just forget it...
.

Where's the honesty? You are neither begging nor wondering. You are instigating. Was this direct enough?

[klacr]

"Shy" is your obnoxious word. Why not just imitate a chicken and say "buk-buk-bukkety-buk?" That's what playground jerks do. Are you trying to be Donald Trump? Want my birth certificate from Englewood, New Jersey too? I also would like you to be honest and tell us if your uploaded exposure led to significant improvement in your tennis game. Do you get your racket tip lower now when you serve? Really? A bit more honesty in follow-up is perhaps something that this website needs.

Also, I see my strokes as existing in constant transition, again a conscious decision-- at least to dream more and even relegate certain times during the day for coming up with unexpected experiments. The process can never be automatic. Inspiration comes in unexpected ways and only to persons who keep themselves open to having it. Most people don't ever change their strokes. They keep them where they are.

But the "beef," that overused expression from Fritz Mondale, doesn't come in this discussion from me-- you are right about that. It comes from don_budge and Stotty. And I note that you totally ignored their assertions, just went after me again. I think I'll call that lack of response shyness or reticence or perverseness if not constipation.

I add to this SERIOUS conversation (well, it should be) my strong feeling that camera work freezes time besides flattening some subject out. And I don't want to flatline time when my tennis is the subject. Also, I wouldn't want to photograph Allah. There could be repercussions.

Have I made myself clear? Perhaps not. I won't submit film of myself-- no matter how much you folks beg and beg and beg and then beg some more-- because the film itself would freeze me in mid-development, something I'm quite sure I must never allow to happen.

This is still just tennis right?

bottle,

Phil is into video analysis, Big time. He's asking out of genuine curiosity to see your strokes so that all of us on the forum can see what you write about. Your threads that you contribute to daily have all of our respect for the sheer tenacity and dedication you have to this game. Daily posts on your hypothesis', experimentation and learning through trial and error. We are all genuinely interested. We are teachers and like to help. But if you feel uncomfortable showing video of yourself than I can understand and respect that. Say no more. All good. I will use my imagination to picture what you mean, and I have a great imagination.

For the record, Phil has improved based on the analysis he's received from this site and it's forum posters. He chooses to learn through video analysis, everyone is different.

Phil,

bottle does not want to improve his strokes (to a certain point) he wants to keep evolving and adapting and messing with them. For bottle, it's more about the journey than it is about a destination. There are many ways to hit a tennis ball, and it sounds like bottle is trying to uncover every single one. Good for him. For the visual learners like you and many others on this site, would it be more palatable to see some images,? Yes of course! But that is bottle's call. He is not truly looking for answers, he's looking for ways.

Both of you have more similarities than you do differences. But when it comes to sharing video for the benefit of your strokes and the readers, you may agree to disagree. It's tennis.

Kyle LaCroix USPTA
Boca Raton

[stotty]

Interesting that slow motion video evidence shown in court is five times more likely bring a conviction than normal speed footage. This is because the boundary between instinctive action and deliberate intent becomes distorted. Physical contact often looks far worse in slow motion than at normal speed, and facial expressions often appear more exaggerated simply because the look of say "dismay" or "horror" is on the screen for longer.

I have been trying to distill this information and relate it to high speed tennis footage but haven't succeeded as yet. There is a distortion about high speed footage that I cannot quite put into words. It will come to me in the end. I always get to the bottom of things. It's just a question of allowing my ideas and thoughts to percolate.

I will be back on this one.....

and I prefer the icons in the old forum....not these yellow ones.

Stotty

[bottle]

Great post, klacr. Thanks for that. I think I love videoed strokes as much as anybody so long as they're not mine. Take the video of Petr Korda hitting with his son that I keep putting up. That's the one I want to keep watching rather than one of myself in which I maybe didn't get my feet in place in time. The more I watch Korda-- not just with his son but all the past tournament clips that also come up-- the more I feel lucky to have winnowed my heroes down to the few who really are going to help my own game. My God, Petr Korda is so much more relaxed than I am. Watching him has to be what I mean when I say I want to keep my tennis more aspirational than that of the other players I know. And I do get high-- very high-- when I hit a passing shot backhand along the lines of his. But I've watched the video of him hitting with his son so many times that by sheer osmosis I may start unconsciously to imitate his forehand too even though it isn't one I've had in mind. I'm very interested in the parental role he's taken, too, not just with the son in this video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PqpARpkF8WA), but with his two golf pro daughters, one of whom has already won the Australian Open and done a flying kick like the flying kick trademark of her father. In the case of my own son, I tried to start him in tennis, and he immediately graduated to the top level of the three other juniors in our club singled out by the head tennis pro for special treatment. He seemed great in tennis but there was no forcing it and I know we didn't. But both of us parents played a lot, and so for some reason he decided he wouldn't. Tragic.

[klacr]

Great post, klacr. Thanks for that. I think I love videoed strokes as much as anybody so long as they're not mine. Take the video of Petr Korda hitting with his son that I keep putting up. That's the one I want to keep watching rather than one of myself in which I maybe didn't get my feet in place in time. The more I watch Korda-- not just with his son but all the past tournament clips that also come up-- the more I feel lucky to have winnowed my heroes down to the few who really are going to help my own game. My God, Petr Korda is so much more relaxed than I am. Watching him has to be what I mean when I say I want to keep my tennis more aspirational than that of the other players I know. And I do get high-- very high-- when I hit a passing shot backhand along the lines of his. But I've watched the video of him hitting with his son so many times that by sheer osmosis I may start unconsciously to imitate his forehand too even though it isn't one I've had in mind. I'm very interested in the parental role he's taken, too, not just with the son in this video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PqpARpkF8WA), but with his two golf pro daughters, one of whom has already won the Australian Open. In the case of my own son, I tried to start him in tennis, and he immediately graduated to the top level of the three other juniors in our club singled out by the head tennis pro for special treatment. He seemed great in tennis but there was no forcing it. and I know we didn't. Both of his parents played a lot, and so for some reason he decided he wouldn't. Tragic.

I watched Peter Korda's son beat one of my club's players (Alex Rotseart) in finals of the national clay courts in Delray Beach a few weeks ago. Sebastian has a big time game. Clean ball striker just like Daddy and rail thin. Timing impeccable and robotic in his precision. Real special to watch.
The video you show is from 2014, Little Korda is a completely new player now, that video is ancient if you see where his game is at today.

And yeah, I love Petr Korda as well. Huge variance in his game, but when he was on...he was ON!


Kyle LaCroix USPTA
Boca Raton

[bottle]

I watched Peter Korda's son beat one of my club's players (Alex Rotseart) in finals of the national clay courts in Delray Beach a few weeks ago. Sebastian has a big time game. Clean ball striker just like Daddy and rail thin. Timing impeccable and robotic in his precision. Real special to watch.
The video you show is from 2014, Little Korda is a completely new player now, that video is ancient if you see where his game is at today.

And yeah, I love Petr Korda as well. Huge variance in his game, but when he was on...he was ON!


Kyle LaCroix USPTA
Boca Raton

Fascinating family.