Interactive Forum August 2016: Marin Cilic Serve

[johnyandell]

When Marin Cilic won the U.S. Open commentators pointed to the differences in his serve as a key to the title, based on his work with Goran Ivanisevic. But how different was it really?

Here is some recent high speed footage of Cilic'’s fearsome first serve. How does he compare to his old self? (https://www.tennisplayer.net/members...tLevelSide.mov) And how does he compare to Goran? (https://www.tennisplayer.net/members...DeuceFront.mov)

[johnyandell]

Quicktime version

Marin Cilic Serve

[gzhpcu]

Goran has a lower toss and more of an archer's bend with his body...

[klacr]

Those courts look familiar

Cilic has no doubt retooled his serve. Ivanisevic had him start with a lower toss which quickened his motion. What I really like is that he narrowed his platform stance. Before it was much wider and made the knee bend much more pronounced and gave appearance of huge back arch. Now things are a bit more compact and explosive and seems as if he gets into great serving rhythm much more often.

Ivanisevic motion was still quicker and seems to have a much deeper unit turn post-toss. Both great motions, but Ivanisevic much more dominant as a lefty and with serve and volley style. You don't get to #2 in the world being mediocre. I miss Goran.

Kyle LaCroix USPTA
Lugano, Ticino
Switzerland

[seano]

Interesting, that on the right side view, Cilic doesn't seem to "load" the rear leg as much as some and as a result doesn't "tuck his tail" (to quote Jeff Salzenstein) with his front (left) hip in the loading phase. Cilic has definitely quickened his delivery.

[kruger]

Actually, Cilic's toss is still a bit too high! As Vic Braden has illustrated over and over, the ball should be at it's highest point when it is struck. In other words, the ball should neither be moving up nor down when it's hit. As can be seen in this video, the ball is moving down when Cilic hits it. Lower your toss Marin and win another major!

[johnyandell]

Vic did demonstrate that Roscoe hit the ball at the top of the toss. That's different than the ball should be hit at the top of the toss. That won't work for 99.99% of all players. See John Craig's great article this month--or the toss height of any good server in our archives. I knew Vic pretty well and he was a passionate guy about tennis but on this point he created possible the worst advice in the history of teaching.

[klacr]

The Marin Cilic toss and serve was tweaked by Goran Ivanisevic (his coach at the time)
Now Goran is with Tomas Berdych, a player with an abnormally high toss, will be interesting to see the adjustments (if any) take place.

Kyle LaCroix USPTA
Boca Raton

[sjhara]

I would be interested in comments on the side by side of Cilic on the first court and the server on the second court in the first video clip.
And although I did not know Vic Braden well I always enjoyed our conversations around the toss and the physics of shooting the monkey.
Aiming at the monkey-fast

http://www.physicsclassroom.com/mmedia/vectors/mzf.cfm

Aiming at the monkey-slow

http://www.physicsclassroom.com/mmedia/vectors/mzs.cfm

[johnyandell]

Yeah I never noticed her--funny--too much artifical hip thrust! Check out the Myth of the Archer's Bow.

https://www.tennisplayer.net/members/avancedtennis/john_yandell/the_myth/the_myth_of_the_archers_bow/