Backhand Poach in Doubles

[bottle]

Skipping a Stone

Okay, I'll think camera-- I applaud that idea. In the meantime I'll say to both you and Gimp-y-gump, who's just talking with his racket right now: It's a loose sidearm throw with a bit of straight section at the end. I'll see if I can return a few serves with it this afternoon-- first day of Spring singles league.

[GimpyGrumpy]

Getting testy I see--you can always tell on message boards when people start trying to belittle you by playing around with your login name. Yours is certainly tempting in that respect, but I'll take the high road.

I get a headache reading your descriptions, actually. Anyone else want to bet we never see any video?

[bottle]

Sorry

You're right. I started to get testy. Must have come from seeing "Grumpy Old Men" starring Walter Matthau and Jack Lemmon. (And someone already took a shot at my name, suggesting I should be renamed "Bong". What a misunderstanding. That hurt. No wonder I'm mean.)

Sorry my descriptions give you headaches. A highly reputable USPTA pro-- Jim Kacian-- once told me I could destroy Yannick Noah in five minutes if somebody permitted me to talk with him.

At the same time I think-- and this is certainly not personal feeling directed at you-- that modern tennis contains a built in prejudice against
individual invention. The entire Czech tennis federation, according to Gene Scott, tried to talk the young teenager Ivan Lendl out of his forehand.

To return to words: No question that visual example, film, and feel are better than analytical language in stroke development-- but how can people explore complex ideas and maybe communicate them except through trial and language? Nobody can tell me that tennis pros and guys teaching tennis to their girlfriends don't talk a lot-- I'm certainly not the only one. Yeah, I'm a word man. Should I apologize for THAT? Vic Braden looked up at me (at Stonebrook Racquet Club in Winchester, Virginia) and told me it was something I could deal with.

In this present thread here, I think maybe there were a couple of different
experiments going on. One was not having everything worked out in advance before I wrote the first sentence-- always dangerous but sometimes interesting, too. I actually learned stuff in the exchanges which led me to try some new invention. This kind of exploration on the run is the opposite of public relations, which is maybe the only kind of writing that too many people like and understand by now-- it's not for me.

As far as the two new strokes I proposed (like throwing frisbees?), my feelings, not surprisingly, have changed again. I think the martial arts
stuff might genuinely lead to a different kind of volleying that might be quite effective. But would it be worth tearing up the volleys one already had?
I'm enough of a gyro that I may turn the channel sometime and try the new volleys on a day when I don't care if I lose.

You're right (very perceptive), you won't see me on film unless you donate a camera. But when I was a rowing coach I filmed my 100 people with the athletic department's camera whenever possible, trying hard not to drop it overboard. The film was terrifically useful in matters of technique. But explanation was good, too, and kinesthetic cues were best of all the language I could offer (I tried to invent a few new ones every day), and those kids won, and liked it, too.

[johnyandell]

I think it's the combination of words, kinesthetics, and pictures. They all work together. Sometimes though the picture has to start the process--which might be the case here...

[bottle]

Speakeasy-- don't forget the speakeasy.

Yeah, but what if Gimpy-Grumpy hadn't yet donated his camera and film services when the crazy-like-a-fox tennis pro in the bar grabbed my arm
and twisted it up by my ear. THIS is the part I'd capture if I was a film-maker. All the rest seems relatively predictable.

Nevertheless, the two new strokes that grew out of the encounter have an ongoing life of their own. My opponent in league play this afternoon left some balls bouncing at intermediate height near the net. I didn't plan to use the new strokes but did want to do something different. So I tried them.
Immediate, clean winners led to their continuance throughout the match.
Maybe they're best thought of as sidearm smashes rather than volleys-- I don't know.

Here's what I do know-- and it's far more important than my minor certification as a tennis teaching pro. If I were being paid on the contingency of successful transfer of the new strokes, this is how I would approach the challenge. I would take any tennis student into a bar, twist her or his arm in the two previously described ways and then never say or do anything more.

[uspta502580821]

Shea Brown

A friend recently told me that some of my advice had been seen on these pages, and I have read with interest Bottle's story of my advice about a backhand volley. I wish I could remember exactly where I met Mr. "Bottle", but indeed he does remember correctly the suggestion that I made to him.
Probably some of my best tennis advice has been given away in a bar somewhere or another,, but it is quite flattering to see this advice mentioned on these pages. Thank you Bottle for remembering and trying this approach to a backhand volley, and mentioning it here.
Years ago I spent many hours practicing at the old Myrtle Beach Tennis Club, when it was just a very plain and quaint beautiful spot hidden deep in the forest off of highway 17 in Myrtle Beach. I was lucky enough to have an old Prince ball machine, and several hundred balls, and I would often stay after everyone was long gone, and practice the same shot over, and over, and over again.
In practicing my putaway backhand volley, I found that by holding my racquet with the head high and curling my palm towards my ear, and by putting my other hand behind my racquet just at the top of my grip, that I could have significant power. Of course I had the advantage of knowing exactly where the ball was going, and at what speed,, but the power and the angles I could achieve were grand. The first movement of the racquet in this motion was down,, letting gravity make the smallest first part, but then the uncurling of the wrist and arm would really lend power to the shot.
I was using a Prince Thunderstick racquet at the time, strung with gut, and I remember breaking strings on two of my racquets one night using that shot. It is certainly not for every backhand volley,, but it can be a real crowd pleaser when it is pulled off.
I want to say a quick word here about the tennis profession. Most all of us do it because it is simply something that we love doing. But much like the life of a musician, it is not an easy profession. Occasionally we are lucky enough to have a very good client, but honestly, most of the time this is not the exact case. Sometimes we are lucky enough to have a good position, and a great boss, at a great club where all the members love us,, but this is so rare. And never do we meet another tennis pro who teaches exactly as we teach. Most teachers , out of necessity must be very jealous of their positions, because good positions are so hard to come by,, and thus egos become involved, and feelings are hurt, and oftentimes we do not speak encouragingly enough to our fellow teachers. I am guilty of this,, but I hope that I am changing.
I can honestly say, that there have been very few tennis teachers that I did not learn something from,, from the beginning teacher to the crusty old Mr. Grumpy,, each one has something we can all benefit from learning.
Now that I know about this forum from John Yandell, I wish you great success with it, I think it is great,, and perhaps I will throw a few more suggestions into the mix! Greetings to all my old students and tennis pals out there in the tennis blog world! Shea.

[bottle]

What a Neat Surprise!

The fact that you don't exactly remember our meeting just proves that we were having a good time. And "Speakeasy" just went out of business. People will speak easy no more. And I don't remember the part about the gravity drop to
start the stroke. So will have to try it over again-- one of the true pleasures of the game. Hope some other people try this unique, "stick-it" backhand volley from the martial arts when they're not just "touching" a hard-hit ball, i.e., blocking it.

Great post. Thanks so much.

[mntlblok]

Does that technique also include turning your back to the net?

Kevin
Savannah

http://tennislink.usta.com/tournaments/Draws/EventDraw.aspx?T=74019&E=50

In practicing my putaway backhand volley, I found that by holding my racquet with the head high and curling my palm towards my ear, and by putting my other hand behind my racquet just at the top of my grip, that I could have significant power. Of course I had the advantage of knowing exactly where the ball was going, and at what speed,, but the power and the angles I could achieve were grand. The first movement of the racquet in this motion was down,, letting gravity make the smallest first part, but then the uncurling of the wrist and arm would really lend power to the shot.

[mntlblok]

I should add that I'm assuming the shot is directed into the forehand doubles alley. Mark Knowles hits this shot *so* beautifully.

Kevin

Does that technique also include turning your back to the net?

[bottle]

Self-discovery?

Shea really ought to be the one to answer. I'd love to learn all the elements that broke the two sets of strings in one night. But if you look back to the beginning of this thread you'll see a lot about turning upper body an extra amount for the poach.

I also have to say, however, and this goes back to the original meeting in "Speakeasy": I don't mind working out fine points myself from a great clue, even wonder if being told every little detail of anything EVER works.

For instance: Some backhand volleying stickers derive power from hips rotation, others from shoulders rotation to under chin (Rosemary Hawley in Australia), others from clenching shoulderblades together. If doing the latter, I wonder, should arm straighten passively (as in my best full backhand slice)? If following the martial arts idea, is everything after the slight gravity drop muscular and simultaneous, Zen-like from a single brain impulse as if you're
breaking a stack of boards?

I don't even want to hear more opinions, at this point, just need time and patience to make my own discovery. I do know one thing, however. The situations from which this thread arose were good poaches where I hit the ball perfectly not in the alley but at the feet of very good players, who nevertheless were able to block-lob back to where I came from. So I wanted to learn how to hit much harder, to really stick it. Haven't played good doubles for a while but think I could now play the same ball in such a way that the same player wouldn't get it back or keep it in the court (or show up for breakfast the next morning).