Interactive Stroke Analysis Roscoe Tanner's Serve

[klacr]

I like the split second timing of his serve and the way the motion identically repeats - it must, there is no time/margin for micro adjustments once the motion is underway.

When I try to mimic his action I find it incredibly arm-dependent. I prefer serves with deeper knee-bends where the load is spread more evenly along the kinetic chain...like Roger's. Roscoe must have had a strong, fast arm because I feel sure that's where a lot of his power came from, rather than driving up.

Roscoe's serve worked great for Roscoe, but don't try it at home.

Amen.
Works for Roscoe and I. But I don't dare teach it nor do I recommend it for any player. A golden shoulder and timing that borderlines on ludicrous for most carbon based life forms are key ingredients.

Kyle LaCroix USPTA
Boca Raton

[gzhpcu]

Stotty, It is further indication that the biggest single power element in the kinetic chain is external/internal shoulder rotation.

[stotty]

Amen.
Works for Roscoe and I. But I don't dare teach it nor do I recommend it for any player. A golden shoulder and timing that borderlines on ludicrous for most carbon based life forms are key ingredients.

Kyle LaCroix USPTA
Boca Raton

Stotty, It is further indication that the biggest single power element in the kinetic chain is external/internal shoulder rotation.

It is. I can hit a serve off my stance in a standing position nearly as hard as when I involve my knees, etc. The problem is I have to muscle it down more because all the power is coming from one source. Power is easier to obtain if you maximise the full use of the kinetic chain.

I am not sure Tanner's second serve was all that. I think the big bonus of a more orthodox (or should I say conventional) serve like Roger's over Tanner's is the deeper knee-bend and subsequent leg drive works much better for delivering a kick second serve.

But like I said Roscoe's serve was quite magnificent, it's just not many (Klacr excepted) can do it.

[bottle]

But remember all those foot-pounds of energy that Dr. Ariel Gideon measured going into and coming out of the ground, more than twice Roscoe's body weight and directly related to his prison term.

[stotty]

But remember all those foot-pounds of energy that Dr. Ariel Gideon measured going into and coming out of the ground, more than twice Roscoe's body weight and directly related to his prison term.

Yes I remember that video. I wondered how Roscoe's would compare with Roger's push off the ground?

I've lost track of Roscoe and what he is up to. Is he still in shackles or is he now a free man?

[bottle]

I'm not sure. I just was thinking that if I ever attain a great serve I'll be encouraged and intoxicated enough to embark on a life of crime.

[bottle]

Nice idea that the speed of the motion enforces a high standard for keeping the separate moves economical and in their place.

But here is one piece of economy that happened during this serve's conception, i.e., in its design phase.

The hit arm bends early as part of its lift. As unlike the serve of Pierre-Hugues Herbert as possibly could be.

It's high toss for me right now although I remain very curious about the Tanner serve, which means I'll try it once tonight whether I should or not.

[gzhpcu]

Problem with the Dr. Ariel Gideon measurement is that there is nothing to compare it with. Where are other player measurements?

[bottle]

Problem with the Dr. Ariel Gideon measurement is that there is nothing to compare it with. Where are other player measurements?

But that's the only problem with it. The real question is whether Roscoe Tanner's huge racket head speed is coming from the ground up or not?

[gzhpcu]

I do not think so, he does not lift up much. Seems like shoulder rotation to me...Here another clip:

[bottle]

Could be. I just would like the answer, for my own mind. But to get to some sort of truth, don't we have to consider such intangibles as how the speed and timing impact one's pressing down on the court (or on the measurement plate in the experiment). I know that in competitive rowing, where leg thrust is huge, there are crews with more and less range in the legs but both very formidable. Or consider anybody trying to jump as high as he can? Would sitting on his heels produce the highest jump? Don't think so. Lots of variables here? Can we really trust what we see?

[gzhpcu]

Vic Braden argued you had to have contact with the ground at impact. Federer jumps and is in the air at impact. Even Tanner is in the air at impact.

[stotty]

Vic Braden argued you had to have contact with the ground at impact. Federer jumps and is in the air at impact. Even Tanner is in the air at impact.

Just shows how coaches interpret things without high speed video.

I went on a course some years ago where the course tutor stipulated every coach attending had to ask other coaches a question to see if they knew the answer. My question to the coaches attending was: at what point in the swing does a top player leave the ground when serving? All the coaches gave the wrong answer....so did the course tutor! Most coaches thought the player left the ground at the point where the racket makes contact.

High speed video has opened up a whole new world for coaches.

[stotty]

10s Player et al,

Yep, great point. No one since Kevin Curren (if he did) has hit the ball at the top after Roscoe, and few if any before. But the freedom point remains. Some people just love this delivery or at least the idea of it. Sort of like people in love with extreme western grips.

I sat and watched Curren at Wimbledon many years ago and, after watching as closely as the naked eye would allow, I could have sworn he struck the ball a fraction BEFORE the apex. Never seen anyone else do that.

[doctorhl]

Stotty, I often watched Curren at practice when he was in college at Texas and your “before the apex is” comment matches what I observed. He stretched those long arms up pretty quick and that early ball strike made his serve hard to read.