Bill, can you break down the Safin backhand?

[lukman41985]

Bill,

I remember you saying on tt.tennis-warehouse.com that you would breakdown the Safin backhand if clips were made available. Now that John has put up a great looking Safin stroke archive, could you please do that? I don't feel entitled or anything to this analysis--it would be a nice gift that I and I'm sure other members would appreciate.

[Bungalow Bill]

Bill,

I remember you saying on tt.tennis-warehouse.com that you would breakdown the Safin backhand if clips were made available. Now that John has put up a great looking Safin stroke archive, could you please do that? I don't feel entitled or anything to this analysis--it would be a nice gift that I and I'm sure other members would appreciate.

Ahhh, yes, I did, let me get something down on that. Safin it is, I will begin my analysis!

[lukman41985]

Thanks a lot Bill!

It's obviously a great backhand but it just looks different than all the other two-handers--kind of like how Federer's forehand is great but how John noted, in his Federer articles, it just looks different.

I have a couple of observations on the Safin backhandhand: great unit turn, arms stay in close, predominantly uses the bent/straight combo, stays really low, well balanced, but not a lot of arm rotation, and he doesn't finish as high as the other two-handers do. At contact he just looks like he's hitting the ball so firmly. That's the word that comes to my mind when I see the Safin backhand: "firm". It's a really, really unique looking shot, I think. Sort of similar to Moya's but Moya doesn't stay as low and balanced, but they seem to strike the ball similarly off the backhand side. Safin obiously gets better results more consistently.

I'm excited to hear your thoughts on it. Thanks again!

[Bungalow Bill]

Thanks a lot Bill!

It's obviously a great backhand but it just looks different than all the other two-handers--kind of like how Federer's forehand is great but how John noted, in his Federer articles, it just looks different.

I have a couple of observations on the Safin backhandhand: great unit turn, arms stay in close, predominantly uses the bent/straight combo, stays really low, well balanced, but not a lot of arm rotation, and he doesn't finish as high as the other two-handers do. At contact he just looks like he's hitting the ball so firmly. That's the word that comes to my mind when I see the Safin backhand: "firm". It's a really, really unique looking shot, I think. Sort of similar to Moya's but Moya doesn't stay as low and balanced, but they seem to strike the ball similarly off the backhand side. Safin obiously gets better results more consistently.

I'm excited to hear your thoughts on it. Thanks again!

I sort of thought about this, would you rather post some clips and discuss it? I think you and I would gain a lot of insight through this. Obviously, John would be able to participate and others for more indepth analysis.

[johnyandell]

BB,

Remember how to do it? If not just post the URLs and I'll go and grab the movies.

JY

[lukman41985]

Sure thing, Bill. Good idea. I'll get to doing that later tonight.

[Bungalow Bill]

BB,

Remember how to do it? If not just post the URLs and I'll go and grab the movies.

JY

lol, I can't even remember what I had for dinner last night.

[Bungalow Bill]

Sure thing, Bill. Good idea. I'll get to doing that later tonight.

Well we only have one clip on Safin on the backhand, unless John know of more. We can try to compare as well. Like Agassi's "pre-stretch" backhand style with others.

One thing is for sure, Safin is very tophand dominant fro beginning to end. That tophand is driving that entire stroke. The other little things we can look at is his unique tophand grip and how where he anchors his thumb. It may not really be anything, I just find it interesting in how his thumb stays off the handle as he takes the racquet back and then clamps down.

Anyway, hopefully John can hook us up.

[lukman41985]

Bill,

We have way more than one--clip. Click on the New Issue link and click on the Marat Safin stroke archive link from there. The link to the Safin stroke archive isn't in the regular stroke archive area--yet.

I'm going to go ahead and look at some clips and post some observations. Just wanted to say there are a bunch of videos you can look at and comment on.

[Bungalow Bill]

Bill,

We have way more than one--clip. Click on the New Issue link and click on the Marat Safin stroke archive link from there. The link to the Safin stroke archive isn't in the regular stroke archive area--yet.

I'm going to go ahead and look at some clips and post some observations. Just wanted to say there are a bunch of videos you can look at and comment on.

Yeah, that is great! We can pick one to let John know which one to load.

Also, did you check out Nadal's forehand on the New Issue video? The one with Nadal, Guga, and Federer that repeats? Check out Nadals wrist release, it is massive.

[lukman41985]

Let's get it started...

I think the best place to start would be by looking at clips of Marat hitting backhands from the center and from a neutral stance. These 3 clips are good to analyze because they offer us 3 different views (front, rear, and left, top hand side) and all 3 backhands are hit off of similar incoming balls.



Start of the Turn: I'm working from the front view clip. Taking a look at Marat's ready position, we can see that his hands are low, with his right hand grip in his semi-western (4/3) forehand grip and his left hand on the throat. Coming out of the split step, Marat lands on his right foot and pushes to his left, landing then on his left foot. During this process, and continuing a little thereafter, he slides down his left hand into what appears to be a an old-style Eastern forehand grip (3/2) and switches his right hand grip into a continental (index knuckle on 2, heel bad between 1 and 2). The shoulders and hips are still parallel to the net. Safin starts the turn by unweighting his right foot, shifting his body weight to his left foot, then gravity turning. Both feet come close together, and are in the air. Safin's right foot lands, but only on the toes, and it's facing 45 degrees to net, with the left foot still in the air. Safin's left foot lands parallel to the baseline, the right foot is still on its toes, and the stance is still narrow--less than shoulder width. The shoulders have gone along for the ride in a classic, beautiful unit turn and are now 45 degrees to the net. The racquet is perfectly horizontal with the racquet face perpendicular to the net. There has been no real independent arm or racquet motion. The start of the turn is complete. Safin's posture is fairly upright, with not much knee bend in his legs--there's more bend in his right knee seeing as how it's on its toes. The start of the turn took 27 frames meaning the start of the turn is complete in a little less than half of one second (film was shot at 60 frames/second).
Full Turn: What's interesting about Marat is that the full turn of the shoulders and torso occur as he's stepping in to the ball. From frames 28 to 36, watch Marat's footwork--specifically his right leg. His right knee and leg come up and forward and then the right foot lands on the ground, on its toe, creating a neutral stance by frame 36. Meanwhile, within the same interval, Safin's shoulders and torso are turning against his left leg on a steep plane. There seems to be no independent racquet or arm movement--they come along with the turn of the shoulders and torso. This steep shoulder and torso turn leaves Safin's left shoulder higher than his right. The shoulders are turned past perpendicular to the net and the right shoulder is under the chin--Safin's eyes are right on the ball. The full turn and step in took a little more than a second. You can see in frame 40 of the side view clip that Safin's racquet tip points almost straight up and is at the same level as the top of his head. His left elbow is bent--more so than his right elbow. His hands are at the level of the middle-portion of his chest--just below the Adidas logo on his shirt. It's pretty unique that Safin's full turn corresponds with his step-in to the shot with his right foot. Does this unique sequencing of events yield anything special? It sure does: TREMENDOUS coil and stretch of the muscles. Think about it--Safin's right foot is going forward and down into a step in whereas his shoulders are turning up and back. This coiling occurs against a firmly planted, and therefore stable, left leg. Interestingly, it's the left knee that's been giving Marat problems for the last couple of years.
Moving Into Contact At this juncture, I'm going to be using the side view clip. Safin was fully turned and stepping in by frame 40. In frame 41, the weight has shifted forward into the shot and forward in the stance and the hands have dropped slightly. The shoulders still have the aforementioned inclined look. In frame 42, the weight appears to still be moving forward and the left arm is straightening as the hands, arms, and racquet continue to drop down. In frames 43 and 44 the shoulders are beginning to uncoil and lose their incline look as the hands, arms, and racquet drop further and as the left arm continues to straighten. In frame 45, Safin has reached the bottom of the backswing/start of the forward swing. The hands continue to lead. The hands are just below the ball and the racquet head is lower than the hands. To give you an idea of how low-to-high Safin will be going, observe that his racquet tip is at knee level and the ball is at waist level. In this frame, in frame 41 of the front view, and in frame 28 of the rear view, we can see that to get the racquet head below the ball Safin has not used much, if any, backwards rotation of the forearms--a distinctive technical component in many two handed backhands, including that of Andre Agassi. The backwards rotation of the forearm is something that John devoted an article to in his series on the two-handed backhand. In this very article, John also observed Safin’s limited/non-existent backwards forearm rotation. Take a look at that rear view clip. Looking at frames 27 through 30 we can see Safin is pulling from the inside out with both arms and hands. Compare frames 27 and 28. You can tell how relaxed Marat's hands and arms are and see how they are both active because as he continues accelerating between frames 27 and 28, the left wrist has laid back and the right wrist has bowed. Now look at frame 45 of the side view again. Now move forward to frame 46. The hands/arms/racquet move up and forward as the shoulders continue to uncoil. The left arm hasn't straightened much since the previous frame. The left hand/palm really seems to be aligning the racquet head with the ball as Marat continues to accelerate forward and up.
Contact There's not much to say about the contact. That is because everything Marat has done to this point was to achieve a good contact. To put it another way: the contact is a consequence of what he has done up until this point. Look at frame 43 of the front view clip. We can see that Safin makes contact with the shoulders parallel to the net and the hips 45 degrees to the net. We can also ascertain the hitting arm combination: which is bent/straight. John has observed how Safin's uses multiple variations of hitting arm combinations on his backhand side. This is definitely true. Though, looking at frame 47 of the side view clip, we can guess that he also used the bent/straight combo here. In frame 30 of the rear view clip, we can see the left arm straight, but can't see the configuration of the right arm. So in the 3 clips I've posted, he seems to have used the bent/straight combo. In all 3 clips, we can see that Safin makes contact at waist level. Given his bent/straight combo, he also hits closer to his side, probably, than a one-hander or a two-hander who uses a straight-straight hitting arm combination (Agassi or Nadal). To determine where, front to back, Safin makes contact, we can only guess looking at frames 46 and 47 of the side view clip. Contact was probably right at the front foot.
Extension, Release, and Wrap Check out frame 47 of the side view clip and compare it to frame 46. Safin appears to have straightened his arm further! Clicking between these two frames, you can feel the power and it's scary. The fact that this clip doesn't remotely come close to showing the actual contact event illustrates how much racquet head speed Marat's got. Frame 48 is the point of maximum extension in the stroke. The left wrist is still laid back. From frame 45 to 48, there's hasn't been much, if any hand and arm rotation indicating that the stroke produced moderate topspin, high velocity (given the extension), with topspin being generated mostly from a low-to-high swing path that moved the racquet tip from knee level at the bottom of the backswing/start of the forward swing to just shy of the level of the top of the head at the point of maximum extension. Through contact and extension, both legs have been stable and grounded, which indicates Marat's tremendous balance and strength--he's also retained what Kerry Mitchell would refer to as his alignment. Frame 49 is the start of the release and the wrap. The racquet head begins to move backwards towards the body and further upwards. The wrist has released and the racquet tip has rotated 90 degrees since contact. The hands are at or just shy of eye level. By frame 55 both arms are back close into the body, bent, and relaxed.

[lukman41985]

I'm almost done...

Recovery Footwork and the Re-Establishment of the Ready Position: Looking at frames 46-50 of the side view clip, we can see that through contact, Marat kept his left foot down, but dragged the toe. Again, he's stayed balanced through the hit and retained his alignment. In fact, in these clips, Marat has definitely not begun to initiate his recovery footwork during the forward part of the stroke--look at his left foot. Far from swinging around early to initiate recovery, it's moved behind him (too his right). By frame 51, well into the release and wrap phase of the stroke, Marat's left leg moves out to his left and slightly forward. By frame 60, his left foot is even with his right foot, renarrowing his stance. The right foot is up on its toe now and is moving to the right. By frame 70, Marat's right foot has moved to the right thereby re-establishing a good ready position with the feet spread wide. The left hand is back on the throat of the racquet—just like it originally was in the ready position. The whole cycle has taken a little more than 1 second. Marat then moves his left foot a little further to the right. He's ready to recycle the process, starting with a split-step, and rip another huge backhand.

[Bungalow Bill]

Recovery Footwork and the Re-Establishment of the Ready Position: Looking at frames 46-50 of the side view clip, we can see that through contact, Marat kept his left foot down, but dragged the toe. Again, he's stayed balanced through the hit and retained his alignment. In fact, in these clips, Marat has definitely not begun to initiate his recovery footwork during the forward part of the stroke--look at his left foot. Far from swinging around early to initiate recovery, it's moved behind him (too his right). By frame 51, well into the release and wrap phase of the stroke, Marat's left leg moves out to his left and slightly forward. By frame 60, his left foot is even with his right foot, renarrowing his stance. The right foot is up on its toe now and is moving to the right. By frame 70, Marat's right foot has moved to the right thereby re-establishing a good ready position with the feet spread wide. The left hand is back on the throat of the racquet—just like it originally was in the ready position. The whole cycle has taken a little more than 2 seconds. Marat then moves his left foot a little further to the right. He's ready to recycle the process, starting with a split-step, and rip another huge backhand.

Good analysis, if you look at the side view film and plays it back and forth with your arrow keys, you can analyze his arm motion for the shot.

Safin uses a very short backswing that relies heavily on the tophand and elasticity in his lower arms to generate racquet head speed in the upper body. Obviously, he has all the other elements that go into this like balance, shoulder rotation, etc..

But the hand pattern he makses for his shot is very simple. He simply rocks the racquet back and then back down and forward up to the ball. He makes the classic "smile" pattern or small U pattern with his swing path.

You can find Safin often extending through the ball with the top arm pushing through before the racquet comes around and finishes.

[lukman41985]

Indeed he does Bill...

Yes, the motion of the arms is quite simple. The smile pattern is a great way to describe it. It's similar to Hewitt, but Hewitt takes the racquet up on an inclined plane with both arms straight whereas Marat has the arms bent.

[Bungalow Bill]

Yes, the motion of the arms is quite simple. The smile pattern is a great way to describe it. It's similar to Hewitt, but Hewitt takes the racquet up on an inclined plane with both arms straight whereas Marat has the arms bent.

Yup, I hope John chimes in and gives us his view on things as well.