Asking to the pros.

[jlkm2219]

In all these tennis related websites there are a lot of very interesting analysis of every stroke. Federer's forehand has been studied from every possible angle but all we have is our opinions and conclusions about what he does: his footwork, backswing, hitting point, etc.
I was wondering if is it possible to interview Federer or another pro and ask him all about his strokes. The we will have his videos and his explanation of what he does.

[johnyandell]

And you think that would help you understand what happens, correct? Sorry but that is a naive assumption. More of a fan's way of thinking than a player's.

My experience has been that when you ask top players technical questions they draw a blank. They don't think that way--or they say things that are obviously not true.

Agassi: I hit my forehand with a lot of wrist.

McEnroe: I hit my serve at the top of the toss.

OR

Sampras: I don't know how I hit my forehand, it's just a natural feeling.

Maybe Federer would be different but I doubt it. These guys play from the inside out, and they don't like to think about or talk about technique.

Even if he was a font of technical wisdom, the chance of getting the time for that type of interview is virtually zero. I've snuck in a few questions like that in press conferences, but until Vanity Fair calls Mirka (sp?) and asks if Rog can explain his backhand and do a fashion spread, what goes thru his head will remain a mystery.

You know what though, every position in every stroke he hits is visually accessible on Tennisplayer. I'll take that--even though it would be interesting to know what goes thru his head.

[jlkm2219]

I agree with you. Maybe it is, as you said, a naive assumption. But I think it would be very interesting have the point of view of the pro players about their strokes, their training, their feelings in the middle of a match, etc.
I know that there is very difficult, based in my own experience, to talk to a pro player about his job.

[johnyandell]

Correct. When Tennis magazine paid Pete Sampras a couple of hundred g, he became receptive. And the articles were absolutely terrible--sounded nothing like Pete although he signed off on them.

Go to Roger's site and read his blog though. Sometimes he actually says something.

More interesting and possible would be pro coaches on the tour--that's on the burner for the future.

[mntlblok]

How'd they get that way??

My experience has been that when you ask top players technical questions they draw a blank. They don't think that way--or they say things that are obviously not true.

Agassi: I hit my forehand with a lot of wrist.

McEnroe: I hit my serve at the top of the toss.

OR

Sampras: I don't know how I hit my forehand, it's just a natural feeling.

Maybe Federer would be different but I doubt it.

Which brings to mind something I've been wondering about ever since I became enthralled with all those freeze frame shots with all the pro's looking practically identical in the "Common Elements Across the Grip Styles". How'd they all end up with those common elements - especially when, apparently, until Mr. Yandell slogged through all these high speed videos, nobody actually *knew* what all those positions even were?!

Or, maybe I've just got it wrong and all the coaches for the top players *did* know all this stuff prior to John's work. Seems unlikely, though, if the *players* don't even know what they're doing. I'm pretty sure that John's not impying that the players are being dishonest.

Yet, John finds that all these top level players end up doing mostly the same things. *If* the players don't know what they're doing, and *if* their coaches don't all know all of the same "pro level" secrets that John has divined, then it seems to me that there's a pretty good chance that the guys and gals that have made it to the top have made it because they are the ones that lucked(?) into doing things the right way. It would seem that, if this were true, that there could be oodles of folks out there who worked just as hard and had all the special athletic attributes as the ones that have made it, but were not "lucky" enough to have stumbled onto the "commonalities".

I guess my question is, are there teaching pro's out there that knew all this stuff before John did his high speed video work - or at least were close enough that they could consistently teach players all the right stuff?

(Actually, I do have a theory that Roger, rather than bothering with a coach most of the time, has his own high speed video setup and has utilized it extensively on himself and others at his own private court. Does Miroslava have a background in video production?) :-)

Kevin
Savannah

[johnyandell]

It isn't luck. Sorry to say it, but this is probably one reason you struggle so much on your forehand.

The instincts and feel of a great player are better than the fastest high speed video camera that will ever be created.

Roger doesn't rotate that hand because some coach said to or it looks better on video or shot spot measured the speed or I measured the spin or whatever. Someone may have said that or told him to do it or to try it. But that's not why he does it.

He does it because he can feel with great certainty (and probably completely subconsciously and non-verbally) just exactly what a piercing, nasty ball he can produce.

The great players play from the inside out. Every body else has to try to learn it from the outside in.

[mntlblok]

It isn't luck. Sorry to say it, but this is probably one reason you struggle so much on your forehand.

I can accept that. So where does that leave the coaches for all these talented folk?

That also brings to mind another question. It is very common to hear about players' forehands breaking down from television commentators. Do you have any insights about particular aspects of their strokes that are the culprits of these breakdowns? Do you pick up any "commonalities" among the breakdowns?

Kevin
Savannah

[johnyandell]

Doing a lot of babysitting.


Re: breakdowns, I'd have to look at the individual stroke--but i don't usually see that. Players get forced on time or distance or get frustrated and overhit or tighten up--but you don't really see big changes in the swings between good shots and errors.

[CraigC]

This just got a little offensive so I'm going to chime in....BABYSITTING???? OUCH!!!!!!!

Hitting the ball correctly is a critical part of the game, BUT, high level coaches do a hell of a lot more than just keep an eye on players' strokes. Mental preparation, strategic planning, matchplay adjustments, understanding momentum switches and controlling patterns, dealing with nerves, fear, excitement, fitness, nutrition, etc..... BABYSITTING MY ASS.

Pro athletes don't fork out 100K plus for high level babysitters. while there may be many coaches that stand around do very little, they generally get fired quickly. Not many guys out there like Roger that are so talented they can travel solo. I'll make sure to give Tony Roche a call next time my wife and I go out to a movie and need a nanny.

Now, after all that, I'm sure John didn't mean it that way.....did ya??
CC

[johnyandell]

Well, you aren't out there, currently, doing all those things for some lucky player...

And I would agree that everything you mentioned is theoretically viable. And say in the case of Henin's coach, Carlos Rodriquez it might approach that.

BUT I could give you many first hand observations of where the babysitting function seems to prevail. Now that's my observation sometimes from first hand contact, and sometimes just observing.

Our mutual friend Robert L. used to say that development was the fun part where you touched players, going on tour was the predictable and boring.

It might come down to the influence a coach has--Brad Gilbert--at least in the mental and tactical areas, etc. But not every coach has that type of impact.