Whipping action on the serve...

[gzhpcu]

Hi Lukman4,
Am not where I want to be on the racket drop yet!


Yellow is the improvement, red is what I know I can biomechanically achieve... Am about half way there...

Showed John a video, am still not pointing straight back towards the fence. Incredible how tough it is to change this one movement!

Have been working on the contact phase of the serve in parallel. Hitting more up and out. Serve is definitely getting more kick to it and bouncing higher... Actually, the image of aiming up and keeping my elbow up after impact seems to be working for me..

[lukman41985]

Nice to see your progress Phil--you've done it, I believe, mostly through visual imaging, correct? I think your elbow is lower and the hitting shoulder is rotated back more.

I don't know how you're working to change two things at once ("in parallel"). That's tough for me, but if it works for you, great!

With regard to you working on the contact phase, my advice to use is to ignore the writings over at tennisone.com and focus on the great visuals and instruction here at tennisplayer.net. Focus mainly on the visuals, I think. Visual learning has already given you a great increase in your racquet drop. It sould give you the same improvement in the contact phase of your serve, don't you think?

Good luck, thanks again for your pictures, and congratulations on your improvement!

[gzhpcu]

Thanks! Yes, the drop is improving with the help of visual imaging and working on the exercise John gave me. This is about the only aspect of my game which has really given me a tough time changing.

Also, I am making extensive use of video analysis to monitor my progress. Nothing like actually seeing yourself and then checking out the images here as the reference point. I have always like John's approach since I first bought his book "Visual Tennis" years ago.

[lukman41985]

So stick with visual imaging Phil! Forget about Heath's and Jim's verbal descriptions about the contact phase. One, they're wrong. Two, visual learning will help you more and has already helped you. Keep improving Phil!

[johnyandell]

It's similar to this one of Fed--again back it up 5 frames. I think the difference is a little less bend in the elbow at the point in question. Advance the one of Pete a few frames from the one you picked. Watch the upper rotate in the shoulder joint--that creates the drop.

[lukman41985]

I see it John. In watching it, I'm focusing on how the racquet not only drops down, but to the right, into the drop. Thanks for the clip.

[stroke]

John,

Some time ago, there was a thread on Tanner's serve in which gzhpcu(Phil), GMann, and BB offered some good stuff on Roscoe's action and you mentioned you would take a look at it if someone would send in some video. BB offered what I felt was some great thoughts on the role of the wrist in the service motion, about how a very loose arm is the way one gets the wrist to kind of flop back on the drop, and return to a neutral position on contact. He said you can kind of get a feel for it sitting at your computer, if you just relax your arm and wrist, and let your hand flop back and forth. This action is far from a conscious wrist snap, as referred to by Jim and Doug on tennisone. I have aquired a tape of the 1977 Australian Open Final in which Roscoe defeated Vilas. Would you like to take a look at it, as you said out of curiousity, and give us your thoughts on Roscoe? If so, give me the address to send it to. To me, even though he has a low toss, which he hits very close to the apex, he does go through a pretty full motion, not that similar to Roddick, closer to Goran.

Stroke

[gzhpcu]

Stroke,
It would be great if John could also get permission to put up a clip of Tanner's serve in the Stroke Archive section!

[johnyandell]

I have no idea why you guys are so obsessed with Tanner. The most idiosyncratic good server ever...but if someone sends one in I'll take a look.

[gzhpcu]

Why the obsession with Tanner? Maybe because with some of us older guys, Tanner was the archtype of today's big servers. He stood out during his era as the big gun and we were all amazed by his low toss, fast concerned action and booming speed.

[stroke]

I am going to send John my VHS tape of the 1977 Australian Open Final, Tanner vs Vilas, tomorrow. Tanner won 3,3,and 3. His serve was really in form that match, and to me it is just amazing to watch his serve, which which I feel would still be a weapon even in the modern game. His 1st serve was huge, and on the tape, one can really see how he moves his toss to the left on his 2nd serve, and how much action is on the ball, all while using a 1977 racquet. Another thing I noticed during this match, Tanner was not using the "step through with the left foot"(he is of course left handed) while serving, as he does in a Braden serve tape I have. He is landing on his right foot, his front foot, after striking the ball. I know John has his reservations about really studying the Tanner serve, and I understand his reasoning, that it is just too out of line with the way almost all top tier players serve, but I can't help but think what we as fans would think if there was a pre-modern player out there who had a, or produced a forehand or backhand like we see today.

[johnyandell]

Stroke,

Better send it FedX overnight. I am going to put something up this month re: the Tanner serve obsession on Tennisplayer.

Email me at jyandell@Tennisplayer.net and I'll send you a FEDX number to use.

John Yandell

[shootermcmarc0]

So I went out today and hit some serves and realized I had been using an in-between grip. The grip I was using was between an eastern bh and continental. My base knuckle was on the 2nd panel, and my heel bad was between the 1st and 2nd. Once I switched to the continental, I started having better contact on my serves. Its amazing how much of a difference it made, just that small little adjustment. It was the difference between making clean contact and shearing the ball. I thought I was using a continental grip all along until I checked it. I guess somehow my hand shifted without me knowing or something.

[minkzy]

serving and injury

I think the more natural the serve (Federer rather than Roddick) the less risk of injury. Particularly this issue of wrist snap, any snapping of the wrist forward on contact with ball, can lead to excessive stretching of tendons at elbow and the excrutiating pain of lateral elbow tendonitis.

[dmgtennis]

Used in lesson to student. hard to convey at first, after much practice on both coach and students persistence, we got the gist of it..