Federer Serve:Part 1

[stroke]

John,

In your latest piece on the Federer serve, I read with great interest your thoughts on the wrist action on the serve. You mentioned Brian Gordan's finding that 25% of the contribution to racket head speed comes from the wrist, and that Brian "agrees with you--tentatively at least--that the concept of snapping the wrist forward is probably counterproductive in coaching." You then go on to say, being completely open to new thoughts as you always are, that some of Brian's subsequent study may indicate that the wrist movement is not at all passive, and may even be some form of snap. I was just thinking that on the forehand, we know, and you have pointed out, that the wrist should be laid back at contact, one does not snap it forward. In fact, if one does, it would prevent you from developing advanced form. Trying to, or actually snaping your wrist forward, is probably one of the biggest differences between amateur and professinal forehands. I don't think one can begin to extend through the contact zone by snapping the wrist through the shot on the forehand. You end up looking tight and sort of short arming the shot. Anyway, I kind of think the same thing would apply to snapping through the serve. You mentioned this in your article by saying in your experiance, players who actually snapped the wrist forward after contact tended to significantly alter the shape of the motion, the same kind of thing I think that happens when you do this with the forehand. I guess I am saying I feel the snapping thing is interelated in tennis with regards to the forehand and serve(and overhead), and I will be very surprised if Brian finds there is some active use or contraction of the muscles in the forward wrist motion.

[johnyandell]

I think he has found that there is some--or there is ambiguous evidence. I've puzzled over this with the "high five" analogy. Maybe it does take some deliberate contraction to achieve this. But I do agree that whatever it is, if anything, it's not enough to break the wrist forward after contact. My basic point is that the emphasis on the forward snap is counterproductive and I agree completely--it's the same on the forehand. Still more good info is better so I'm curious to see what Brian finds.

[shootermcmarc0]

Trying to, or actually snaping your wrist forward, is probably one of the biggest differences between amateur and professinal forehands. I don't think one can begin to extend through the contact zone by snapping the wrist through the shot on the forehand. You end up looking tight and sort of short arming the shot.

I have this problem. What are some ways to get rid of this? Whenver I really want to take cut at the ball, I end up firing my wrist forward, and as a result, I end up shearing the ball and it flies into the net

[stroke]

I have this problem too sometimes. One thing that helps me is keeping my racquet hand relaxed on turn phase of the preperation, and even as I begin my swing, I think you will be surprised at how much looser and easier it is to strike the ball this way. I don't think you can snap your wrist forward when you have a more relaxed grip. It is just hard to get away from the natural inclination to swat at the ball by snapping the wrist. Working out with a ball machine helps when you are trying to make a change like this. Federer seems to be the ultimate role model here, he just looks so totally relaxed and loose striking his forehand.

[johnyandell]

I think you have to correctly model the position(s) after contact and then be able to visualize them during play. Check out the myth of the wrist forehand article in advanced tennis. Film yourself and see if you make the "extension" position.

[jeffreycounts]

The more I look at the serve, at least a flat serve, the more I see something
that resembles a "follow through". The arm and racket on the pro serve are extended so far forward after contact. Almost like in a straight line toward the net. There is an amazing amount of extension there with the pronating arm and hand. What I see on the serve is the exact same thing I see on the forehand. Some wrist movement coming into contact, but then the arm and wrist form a unit that seems to "torque through" or maybe "rotate through" is a better phrase, the ball together. From my perspective the wrist movement prior to contact is simply an aid, or perhaps a "kick start" to begin the rotating unit that follows, from shoulder to hand.

I also think the notion of "snapping the wrist" is pretty much a sure fire way to screw up any chance of getting the really extended prontation you see on the first serve. Same thing on the forehand. In fact I'd say the advice to "snap the wrist on the serve" is one of the biggest reason people never get big action on their serves. I speak this from personal experience as well. My serve became an enormous weapon when I started focusing on prontating through contact with my whole arm, rather than just snapping at the wrist. The difference was just enormous.

Just my thoughts.

Jeff

[gzhpcu]

On second serves, the follow through is less extended forwards, and goes off more to the right. When hitting the second serve, shouldn't one consciously attempt ulnar deviation in the wrist to move the racket head even more out to the right? That is to say: not snapping down, but snapping out to the right?

[stroke]

I am under the impression that one should not consciously snap the wrist in any direction at all, or have any sort of difference in the way you swing the racquet on 1st vs 2nd serves. Any sort of difference in the way you approach the ball should be a consequence of your ball toss location and/or body position relative to the toss. I think Jeff pretty much nailed the proper arm action on the serve.

[johnyandell]

Yeah nice picture too Jeff! I think you can add the image of "hitting uP" more aggressively on the second serve without disturbing any of the other elements. more on this later.

[jeffreycounts]

Yeah nice picture too Jeff! I think you can add the image of "hitting uP" more aggressively on the second serve without disturbing any of the other elements. more on this later.

I totally agree John. Pronation just perhaps more extreme and more to the right. I look forward to anything you do on the second serve