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I hope Kevin doesn't mind me quoting him at length on this new thread, but I thought this would be a good place to find a new home for his great posts on drop shots. Good info in there.
Any of the teachers on the list have comments on the drop shot? How and when to play them? How to play against them? It's a topic not covered in depth in the tennis books that I've read.
Jim
My mental picture for underspin is to catch the ball above the "equator" but with what "feels" like an open racket face and use sort of "U" shaped swing that "feels" like the strings are following the contour of the ball from that "above the equator" point, down the back of the ball, and then across the bottom - sort of a "Jai-Alai" effect. I find it difficult to keep the racket face from "closing" on those high balls.
There are two basic ways that I try to hit a drop shot. I primarily try to wait and catch the ball late and use at least as much *side* spin as underspin (causing the "kick" to be towards the side fence), and it seems to work best if I catch the ball fairly low to the ground.
The one I'm pondering for adding to the kind of spin Nadal generates *feels* like it is hit as described above for an underspin drive, but with the initial contact point *below* the equator, and the finish up the *front* of the ball. This one works better catching the ball at a much higher level off the ground, and is more likely to result in a ball that bounces back towards the net. It typically has a higher trajectory, but if you *could* find a way to add significantly to Nadal-type spin rates, I can picture a bounce that even Nadal couldn't run down.
I remember seeing one of the guys in the National 40's clay courts here who used this technique for some of his drop volleys. He liked to use it on match points, because, as the opponent would be reaching over the net trying to run the ball down, he would shake the guy's hand.
What do you think?
Kevin B
Again, I ain't the expert, but I do experiment with it a lot. Most recently I've experimented with going sharply cross court with a lot of topspin off both sides. Very little backswing, and I think of going straight up on the outside of the ball, starting from only barely below the ball. I've found that on all the shots that I want to use this excessive type of topspin with that I have much better success (and less "framing") if I try to catch the ball near the top of my strings, as opposed to the middle of them. If I can just trust that the shot will work with this technique and not make any effort to control the trajectory, then the trajectory takes care of itself and the shot works - even if it has gotten relatively low on me before I get to it.
I've also gotten fairly decent at hitting the type of reply that Federer made on one of Blake's drop shots to his backhand. The commentators talked about the backspin that Fed got on the shot, but it was clearly the *sidespin* that made the shot work. That thing kicked dead sideways. Like with your technique, I catch it late (and low), but I shoot for catching the inside of the ball. Opponents will sometimes think they have time to run this one down, but fail to realize that it is going to kick sideways, so still don't end up getting there in time. Swinging *hard* on the follow through is necessary to get the massive spin. Kind of scary, but most pleasing when it works. I used to only use this one off the backhand, but had it used on me with a forehand a while back and experimented with it myself. Same technique works off both sides.
Like with any short ball, one of the things that I have to constantly remind myself about is that I need to run up to *beside* the ball, not right at it.
If I can only barely get to the ball before it hits the ground, then I typically have to just try to shove it back straight ahead and deep. I know that I then have to get on my horse and get back for the lob that is coming after I finish sliding. The worms that I play against will typically have lob *volleyed* the durn thing back while I'm still sliding.
If the drop shot I've run down is short enough and wide enough, I'm sometimes successful with just trying to pop the ball up dead to the right or left (no forward at all) to just above net height. It seems that my forward momentum is enough to give the ball enough of a forward push that it makes it over the net, in spite of feeling like I've hit it only sideways and not forward at all.
I aspire to learning to use the severely angled slice (or flat shot) that you often see the pro's use off both sides, but so far it seems to require better hands and better touch than I'm capable of. I've seen Van Winitsky hit some incredibly good shots that way in the National 40's. Amazing hands on that guy.
I also aspire to hitting just a "dink" drop shot off a drop shot that doesn't really use any spin and that is dinked straight over the net rather than angled. I've had it used successfully against me, but I haven't been able to figure out the secret to hitting the shot. I fear that it is just another type of "touch" shot that I'm not talented enough to pull off. Mine looks more like a lob than a dink.
What I try is also dependent upon where my opponent is after he hits the dropper. Might even lob them if they have followed it in. The worms I play against will also fake me out to suck me in to hitting it to where I think it's going to be open.
I would add that essentially every drop shot that is hit against me, and every one that I try to hit, is hit very near to a sideline.
Kevin B
Any of the teachers on the list have comments on the drop shot? How and when to play them? How to play against them? It's a topic not covered in depth in the tennis books that I've read.
Jim
My mental picture for underspin is to catch the ball above the "equator" but with what "feels" like an open racket face and use sort of "U" shaped swing that "feels" like the strings are following the contour of the ball from that "above the equator" point, down the back of the ball, and then across the bottom - sort of a "Jai-Alai" effect. I find it difficult to keep the racket face from "closing" on those high balls.
There are two basic ways that I try to hit a drop shot. I primarily try to wait and catch the ball late and use at least as much *side* spin as underspin (causing the "kick" to be towards the side fence), and it seems to work best if I catch the ball fairly low to the ground.
The one I'm pondering for adding to the kind of spin Nadal generates *feels* like it is hit as described above for an underspin drive, but with the initial contact point *below* the equator, and the finish up the *front* of the ball. This one works better catching the ball at a much higher level off the ground, and is more likely to result in a ball that bounces back towards the net. It typically has a higher trajectory, but if you *could* find a way to add significantly to Nadal-type spin rates, I can picture a bounce that even Nadal couldn't run down.
I remember seeing one of the guys in the National 40's clay courts here who used this technique for some of his drop volleys. He liked to use it on match points, because, as the opponent would be reaching over the net trying to run the ball down, he would shake the guy's hand.
What do you think?
Kevin B
Again, I ain't the expert, but I do experiment with it a lot. Most recently I've experimented with going sharply cross court with a lot of topspin off both sides. Very little backswing, and I think of going straight up on the outside of the ball, starting from only barely below the ball. I've found that on all the shots that I want to use this excessive type of topspin with that I have much better success (and less "framing") if I try to catch the ball near the top of my strings, as opposed to the middle of them. If I can just trust that the shot will work with this technique and not make any effort to control the trajectory, then the trajectory takes care of itself and the shot works - even if it has gotten relatively low on me before I get to it.
I've also gotten fairly decent at hitting the type of reply that Federer made on one of Blake's drop shots to his backhand. The commentators talked about the backspin that Fed got on the shot, but it was clearly the *sidespin* that made the shot work. That thing kicked dead sideways. Like with your technique, I catch it late (and low), but I shoot for catching the inside of the ball. Opponents will sometimes think they have time to run this one down, but fail to realize that it is going to kick sideways, so still don't end up getting there in time. Swinging *hard* on the follow through is necessary to get the massive spin. Kind of scary, but most pleasing when it works. I used to only use this one off the backhand, but had it used on me with a forehand a while back and experimented with it myself. Same technique works off both sides.
Like with any short ball, one of the things that I have to constantly remind myself about is that I need to run up to *beside* the ball, not right at it.
If I can only barely get to the ball before it hits the ground, then I typically have to just try to shove it back straight ahead and deep. I know that I then have to get on my horse and get back for the lob that is coming after I finish sliding. The worms that I play against will typically have lob *volleyed* the durn thing back while I'm still sliding.
If the drop shot I've run down is short enough and wide enough, I'm sometimes successful with just trying to pop the ball up dead to the right or left (no forward at all) to just above net height. It seems that my forward momentum is enough to give the ball enough of a forward push that it makes it over the net, in spite of feeling like I've hit it only sideways and not forward at all.
I aspire to learning to use the severely angled slice (or flat shot) that you often see the pro's use off both sides, but so far it seems to require better hands and better touch than I'm capable of. I've seen Van Winitsky hit some incredibly good shots that way in the National 40's. Amazing hands on that guy.
I also aspire to hitting just a "dink" drop shot off a drop shot that doesn't really use any spin and that is dinked straight over the net rather than angled. I've had it used successfully against me, but I haven't been able to figure out the secret to hitting the shot. I fear that it is just another type of "touch" shot that I'm not talented enough to pull off. Mine looks more like a lob than a dink.
What I try is also dependent upon where my opponent is after he hits the dropper. Might even lob them if they have followed it in. The worms I play against will also fake me out to suck me in to hitting it to where I think it's going to be open.
I would add that essentially every drop shot that is hit against me, and every one that I try to hit, is hit very near to a sideline.
Kevin B