Forehand forearm supination question

[EricMatuszewski]

Stretch Shortening Cycle in Pronators and Flexors

Saw this post and just couldn't resist....Thanks for speaking up Brian!

After having developed many of the currently top ranked 12 and under players in New Jersey, my experience is that, utilization of the stretch shortening cycle in the(pronators and flexors) on the forehand is unquestionably a characteristic that sets the best forehands apart from the average ones. Most of the kids at the top of the rankings, even at the district level now have adopted this tool in the forearm action. As you go up to the Sectional and National levels it is now the norm with the boys.

However, It took me about 2 years to develop a way to safetly teach it. 99% of kids will do it wrong if you just tell them to "do this" and demonstrate.

My goal has always been to develop protocols to communicate technique to even the slow learners. And to constantly improve those protocols.

Girls can also use the forearm SSC to phenominal result. I have a 7 year old who does it as well as anyone I've seen and it only took her about 5, 30 minute lessons. I'm actually jealous when I see her hit and I played college (tried pro).

The Stretch Shortening Cycle as applied to the forearm action of the forehand is not a new concept, I first read about it in "Tennis Course 1" by the German Tennis Federation published in 1995.

The editors of the chapter "Wrist Action in Tennis" did an exquisite job describing the actions, however unless you already understand what they were describing I doubt many people could get a clear picture just by reading the words.

It's not even a new technique. Rod Lavers forehand clearly utilized this, albeit with a more moderate grip than what is now the standard, perhaps it's one of the reasons he dominated.

Currently, Heath Waters, is communicating the action thru his website. I must tip my hat to him for taking this on in web form. For a web version it's very good, but the multimedia approach also has limitations (although less). I'm sure he'll continue to refine it, as I know he is a passionate coach.

Lets get a little technical...

In the simplest language possible, the Stretch Shortening Cycle is a high velocity stretch of a muscle that triggers a reflexive contraction of said muscle.

My theory is that the "uncoordinated player" tries to perform conscious contraction within the time of the cycle, thus inhibiting the cycle and robbing themselves of power. (I'm trying to put this in simple terms that more people can understand, you see the limitations of words here).

As applied specifically to the forearm/wrist complex during the forearm, the SSC happens in the pronators and the flexors when the complex is kept very relaxed and loose. As the arm moves toward the ball thru space suddenly, a ballistic stretch in the flexors and pronators is caused due to the inertia of the racquet tip. A critical stretch is reached, and the muscles contract due to a protective reflex action (it's not a concsious action). It's similar to your leg kicking when the doctor "checks your reflexes", with a rubber mallet on your patelar tendon.

This causes the "Wiper" pronation action and the flexion you see that causes the hand to end in the "released" looking configuration at the finish.

These actions cause pace and spin, thus producing a potentially "Heavy" forehand depending upon how forcefully the cycle was loaded. Loading still has to occur from the ground up!

The best players utilize the cycle throughout their entire bodies , from there feet up to the hand, this is what makes them look like bullwhips rather than machines. My "whippiest" students hit the heaviest.

[tennisplayer]

emat, does SSC apply to the two-handed backhand also? Should the left hand (for a righty) mimic a forehand to take advantage of the SSC?

[EricMatuszewski]

SSC's are used thruout an athlite in many different movements and in many different sports.

I think what you are asking is...
Do high level players use the forearm/wrist movement I addressed above in the backhand stroke?

The footage I've shot of top players suggests that this action (in elite players) probably happens in a different way on the backhand.

However, Nadal gets the closest to mimicking this action on the backhand side out of the players I've taped, Coria comming in second. Most seem not to use this particular action as pronounced on the two hander though.

This is probably because of the other hand on the racket taking alot of the strain away from the pushing arm flexors/pronators. No sudden stretch=no
SSC. If the doctor put the mallet on your pattelar tendon then pushed on it your leg wouldn't kick. It's a similar concept.

Remember that SSC's happen at other joints, and that this pronation/flexion movement is only the climactic part of the larger picture of the whole forehand. I can't emphasise this enough as I don't want to start a legion of stiff legged tennis players trying to slap their way to hitting a heavy ball. That would probably cause injury and definitelly disapointing results.

[tennisplayer]

Thanks, emat, that is good advice. Even at my humble level, I have noticed that heavy hitting with a lot of forearm pronation does fatigue the arm greatly - and I am sure it makes the arm and wrist more susceptible to injuries unless one has that extra bit of conditioning.

[EricMatuszewski]

rajsrin,

You are likely not using the stretch shortening cycle correctly to pronate. Trying to "muscle" this action without using the SSC will cause soreness in the wrist/forearm and won't do much for your forehand. These small muscles quickly tire out/get sore when used in a non SSC way. Once you get the feeling of the SSC correct though it's suprising how easy it is.

Too bad, your not in New Jersey.

Hope you can figure it out,
Eric

[gzhpcu]

I supinate at the bottom of the forehand swing quickly just as my right hip begins to move forward. This causes even more stretch. I find it easy to do and not at all tiring.

[EricMatuszewski]

Gzhpcu,

How's the spin (heaviness) of your forehand, since you figured this out?

Rajsrin,
try www.virtualtennisacademy.com , Heath's site for some good visuals of this action. He also goes into some explanation and gives you a drill to do there which should at least get you going more in the right direction.

John plans to incorporate some clips into this forum as well shortly to help with this topic, but in the mean time give www.virtualtennisacademy.com a try,(platinum membership,as it will give you access to the most helpfull tools) it should help you.

Gzhpcu, have you been to Heath's site?

[tennisplayer]

Thanks again, Eric, I will try out Heath's site.

I think I know the feeling of SSC, though. What I do is prepare just in time - not early, not late - and let gravity and the racquet's inertia pull my wrist back as I start my forward swing, going from inside to outside. The arm naturally supinates as the racquet head is pointed backwards. I get a pretty good whipping action and some pretty decent shots, with lots of pace and spin. It almost feels like the harder you hit, the more control you have, when one hits this way!

But I do muscle it during the forward and upward movement, which is probably why my arm fatigues... thanks for your insight! I could settle for a more relaxed shot - i.e. let the arm pronate naturally - and muscle it once in a while when trying for a winner.

I am trying to incorporate this into my 2HBH also, since I sorely need more racquet head speed on that wing. My 2HBH is pretty steady, but it breaks down sometimes and I keep hitting long. Incorporating SSC is showing great promise.

[BrianGordon]

good discussion but ...

This has been an interesting discussion and I really commend those who have taken the time to delve into deeper thought regarding stroke mechanics. I believe this is the key to advancing understanding of stroke production. I would like to point out, however, that conclusions and actions based on visual interpretation of qualitative two dimensional media, combined with some basic knowledge of muscle mechanics is contraindicated. It is impossible to establish whether the constituent components of the SSC are being utilized without direct measurement of the relative rotational velocities, calculation of forearm rotation muscle torque, and establishment their temporal histories. Even then, separation of the components into effects from reflex (which likely plays a very minimal role in forearm action) and other muscle properties is not possible with current technology in dynamic situations like a forehand. Therefore, recommendations based on this scientific postulate seem problematic without the requisite information. I urge caution in accepting the explanation of someone like Mr. Watters who has no apparent credibility in the area of Sport Biomechanics (I see a conspicuous lack of refereed research although the catch terminology flies freely) to make necessarily quantitative observations based on video editing software, a Sport Science class or two, and some reading. John Yandell, to his credit, is the first to attempt to consolidate Tennis and science by bringing in top researchers like Bruce Elliott. In short I like the dialogue, but maintain a CRITICAL eye, be CAREFUL, and seek information from those best suited to provide it – which will definitely be Tennisplayer.net if I know Mr. Yandell.

[gzhpcu]

emat,
I started doing the inverted backswing on the forehand for wide balls some time ago, and in order to get the necessary whipping action, I had to do the SSC. Then I began using it on the normal forehand when I wanted a heavy, fast forehand with lots of topspin.
Here's a snapshot of how I do it:



Recently, I was surprised to notice that Heath Watters had mentioned this on his site. However,as this site is my "bible" in respect to professionality, I wanted to bring it up here. This is the only, focused, coherent and professional site on tennis I am aware of.

[EricMatuszewski]

Phil,

When would you not wan't a "heavy, fast, forehand with lots of topspin" Especially on those beutifull Red Clay Courts!

Actually I think I've prayed to God for that same combination

Dear God:

Please give me a heavy, fast, forehand with lots of topspin and some red clay courts to play on...

Wait.. are you typing to us from Heaven.

Congratulations on finding a forehand and those courts, I am jealous.

So since you have everything a player could ask for...

Could you put up a clip of that forehand somewhere? (Shoot it at 1000fps, because you are "blurring out" with you've current shutter speed). Also fill the frame more with yourself and give a rear view in addition to 2 side views one from that side and one from the other side. I'd love to see what your doing.

And I'm wondering if you got the term SSC from this forum or where did you first hear about it?

Realize that the SSC mechanism (as Brian said above) as it relates to this movement can't be either proven nor disproven (due to technological limitations) so at this time it is just a theory that it plays a role. (I like this theory, obviously).

Also, did you ever hurt yourself trying to learn this action on the forehand?

Could you give more information about what it feels like is happening in your forearm and wrist when you do this?

Still Jealous,
Eric

[gzhpcu]

Eric,
I first heard the term SSC from Brian. I had no idea as to what I was doing.

No, I never hurt myself doing this action, and neither do I feel tired. However, I must admit that I work out 45 minutes daily with weight machines (and play 3 hours of tennis a day), so I don't know if this is a factor.

When I intentionally supinate quickly at the bottom of my swing just as I start rotating into the hit with my hips, I get plenty of power and lots of topspin. I do hit through the ball as long as possible, however, because otherwise the ball lands to short (unless you want to go for a short topspin cross to pull your opponent off the court). I just keep my wrist laid back (I don't flick it forward), supinate and then pronate my forearm as much as possible, so that the racket stops below my left hip. My friends think I am flicking my wrist, but I am not, just rotating the forearm.

I feel flattered that you want to see videos of my forehand, but remember I am not a pro. Just a fairly good player (I was ranked in the top 100 in Swizerland during my best days....). Unfortunately, the camcorder I use only has about 6 images per second. If you still want to see some rear and side video clips anyway, let me know and I'll try and get some up this week.

[EricMatuszewski]

Phil,

You don't have to be a pro to be worth looking at. I've learned alot from videotaping all levels of players over the years. Even beginners first lessons can be very enlightening. I'd still love to see what your doing. Your commentary of what you think is happening combined with some good visuals could help others as well as yourself alot more than you may realize.

Please invest in a good digital video camera and use it everyday you hit. You will find it to easily be the best tennis investment you ever made.

I saw the clip of your serve, The camera you used for that one is good enough, just do it in the daylight with the sun behind the camera and set the shutter speed as high as you can without the image getting really dark.

Already a revelation is happening when we combine what your picture tells us with what you belive happens on your forehand...

You made the comment that "you don't flick forward" and that you "keep your wrist laid back".

Look at the still picture you provided..

Do you realize the angle between the racket shaft to your forearm at this moment before contact is less than 90 degrees?

It's unlikely that this angle remains constant to contact.

It appears from this picture that your forearm muscles are probably in a stretched state at this moment (unless your some kind of freak of nature and have super long muscles). It's likely that the same angle "opens up" to more like 120 to 135 degrees @ contact. Unless that is, that you attempt to force that less than 90 degrees angle to be held in place to contact. I don't see elite players doing that as a general rule although perhaps they might appear "held back" when they are late on a ball.

This "stretch and release to contact" that happens for whatever physiologic reason (I wonder if an SSC plays a part) is a motion I've observed over and over again among elite forehands (In addition to the pronation part).

To prove this with more certainty, video would have to be taken from above you in addition to the side view. But you'd still be able to see this pretty well with just the same side view taken by an off the shelf 60fps dv camera with good lighting and taken close up.

So for gods sake (he gave you those courts), get some clips in. This is new ground you are breaking here!

[gzhpcu]

Eric,
Here is the video clip I made the photo from:

forehand

[EricMatuszewski]

Phil,

The picture is of you hitting after you did an early weight transfer to your front leg, this video is one with a different type of weight transfer. Your feet are much further apart. (It's definitelly a different forehand example).

That aside, it's hard to see well at this distance and more importantly with that shutter speed setting. There is alot of blurring around contact. Which in some ways is a good sign in that it means your getting enough racket speed that the cameras eye can't catch up. (That should make you feel pretty good.)

Beg borrow or steal a better camera with a faster shutter setting and get it close to you, and figure out how to import it in something that can be looked at frame by frame then I can offer some comments.

Still jealous of those courts,
Eric