analyzing borg's strokesl

[gsheiner]

John,

I've spent a bit of time looking at the strokes of Connors and Borg versus those of modern pros.

I think it might be incredibly interesting for people of my vintage ( grew up in the borg/mcEnroe Winbledon classic era) to have a look at Borg's strokes and see how they differ from today's pros. Plus, for club players, hitting like either Borg or Connors would dominate even if there are other power sources that guys like Federer use in the modern game.

I'd like to make just a couple of comments about Borg's game for now and I look forward to your feedback if possible.

On his backhand I think Borg's prepares like a onehander with all his shoulder rotation done early and then he just dips and goes. In the first rear view his racket is behind the body in his prep. Most of the modern 2 handers seem to hold the racket in front longer and then dip it back just as they start forward to get more of a whip. Nalbandian's prep seemed to me Borg like but even he didn't get his racket behind his body in the prep.

On his forehand Borg seemed to prepare fairly similarly but maybe without the extreme forearm external roation of a Federer. A few frames before contact Borg seemed to have his racket butt pointing at about a 45% angle to the ball whereas guys like Federer are still pointing the butt directly at the ball ( 90%), If I'm correct in my interpretation then the modern guys like Federer are delaying the forearm rotation as a power source until later in the swing and then viciously catching up.

If I've analyzed this incorrectly I apologize for wasting your time.

Thanks,

Glenn

[johnyandell]

Glenn,

You could be completely correct. I think that the hard part is that I'm not sure we have enough Borg footage to make great generalizations. Also remember he is playing on hartru in our footage. Could be another factor. And he is a lot older than he was in the good old days. And whereas Mac and Jimmy look pretty much the same technically as seniors, the backhand finish Borg uses in our footage seems different--at least as I remember it...his arm used to be straighter long and he would let go with the back arm.

Agassi definitely doesn't go as far behind his body. But what Borg does isn't that unusual. I don't see that as some defining factor. What is unusual is how strong his front arm grip is--pretty strong eastern. That's how I remember it--the front arm straight, indicative of that grip and a strong one-hand like element. You can see some of that in the one BH side view. But that would not be the grip structure I would recommend for the vast majority.

On the forehand, again, not sure there is enough to make split second distinctions like you are talking about. But Borg appears almost "conventional" by some standards--far less hand and arm rotation and his grip isn't that extreme either by modern standards.

If the question is whether Federer et al are good models, the answer is yes and no. I've said it in all the articles I've written. Understanding Federer is different than advocating him as a model. Body turn, compact backswing, relaxation, extension on some balls, even grip, or especially grip, yes!

But extreme hand and arm rotation on large numbers of balls? I don't think so. I still believe that Sampras, Connors, Agassi, have grip structures and combine that with simpler forward swing patterns that most players could learn from.

It's crazy--everyone wants to do the extreme. If the average player could turn fully and swing thru with the racket more on edge like Pete or Andre (at least on many balls) he'd have a great forehand and be able to hit more than enough spin for most situations. But far too few club feel good about themselves unless they think they are copying the top player of the moment...

The problem is the technical varations and swings of the current pro game are so much more complex. Now my friend Brett Hobson who will have another article soon disagrees and advocates far more advanced swing elements for a much wider range of players. I don't really have anything against that if appropriate depending on the ball, and I agree all these variations appear to be a response to tactical situations, but the advanced elements don't work if the more basic fundamentals of turn and hitting arm, etc aren't in place.

So the answer is I don't really have the time to take Borg apart frame by frame and compare him to toehrs. But in general I don't think so much about modeling certain players as that certain players are modeling certain elements, if that makes sense.

John Yandell

[gsheiner]

Thanks John for your answer.

I'm always fooling around with all this high level technical stuff -like a lot of guys I guess. There are really 2 components to this I think:

Understanding and being able to hit like a pro;
Being able to do it consistently in order to win.

The first I think is hard but doable. The second I think is impossible for all but highly trained full time players.

Interstingly I was taping myself hitting my version of the pro forehand and I compared it to Federer with video analysis software and the amazing thing:

His takeback was much more compact. SO, even though he's killing the ball he's doing it with less of a takeback than most of us amateurs. As you point out that's probably a great technical feature of his stroke.

I think a lot of the search for more power in the club game is to be able to hit through good retrievers who are abundant in the club game. But at some point this is probably counterproductive. Instead a well developed drop shot option ( with disguise being the key) to complement the deep power option might be the way to go at the club.

Any possibility of your doing something on the drop shot especially in regards to disguising it?

Glenn

[johnyandell]

We will get around to the drop shot sooner or later. There is some interesting info on the spin components in the heavy ball section. When the ball gets slowed down it's a great weapon against pushers. It's not a soft touch shot like people believe. You need racket head speed to hit enough spin to make it work.

The other thing though about club tennis is the pattern play. The drop shot is just the finishing shot in some situations for some patterns. Read Allen Fox and Craig C. Their stuff is the difference in winning, rather than power until you get to the 5.0 plus level.

[jeffreycounts]

Borg Forehand

Glen,

I agree you with completely in terms of the Borg forehand. Most all pros get their wrist cocked back and down with a semi-western grip and point the butt at the ball as they pull foreward, letting it "catch up" before impact. I, like you, was immediately struck by how the butt of Borg's racquet never points at the ball. Great footage of Borg. It was fun to look at his strokes and compare to today's pros.

Jeff