Topspin

[tennismaverick]

Bungalow Bill,

Thanks.

[mntlblok]

Swoosh

It looks like I had it backwards, maybe, for what is being described as a "swoosh" versus a "wiper". However, the only real difference that I could detect with the second example of Roger was that he was hitting off the back foot. The other three all looked about the same to me.

What I noticed with *all* of those strokes was that they made me drool.

I've continued to videotape my own attempts at changing my ugly forehand, and yesterday's outing was hard to watch. :-) While I've pretty successfully incorporated the unit turn, have (somewhat) gotten my left arm to point out to the right, and gotten rid of the compulsion to get to a closed stance every time, comparing these juicy video clips to my stroke makes it appear to me that I'm both contacting the ball way too late (not far enough out in front), *and* swinging *way* too much from low to high in the swing path.

It looks like I may be creeping up on the reason why my subconscious fears that every forehand is going to go over the fence if I don't do something to prevent it. Heading out to the courts now to see what I can do with some slow feeds and the video camera in an effort to modify those two (perceived) flaws in my forehand stroke. I fear I may also be looking at(horrors) having to bend my knees more.

I'm now wondering if there is any real difference between "hitting through the ball" and simply using a "flatter" swing.

Kevin

[Bungalow Bill]

I'm both contacting the ball way too late (not far enough out in front), *and* swinging *way* too much from low to high in the swing path.

You have to hit in front of you within your skill level and try and move it out a tad further as you practice. If you see Fererro he crushes the ball way out in front of him with that Western grip. Lots of juice going into that puppy. Would hate to be the recipient!

It looks like I may be creeping up on the reason why my subconscious fears that every forehand is going to go over the fence if I don't do something to prevent it. Heading out to the courts now to see what I can do with some slow feeds and the video camera in an effort to modify those two (perceived) flaws in my forehand stroke. I fear I may also be looking at(horrors) having to bend my knees more.

A real good clip to watch is Fererros clip. It has all the elements of a successful forehand. Try and relax the wrist some, and place the butt cap against the palm of your hand for leverage and control. Then once you do that relax your hand some. Let the racquet head go through the ball and then around naturally. You should be able to hit it well in one session. If not, you are doing something wrong.

I'm now wondering if there is any real difference between "hitting through the ball" and simply using a "flatter" swing.

Kevin

Where we get in trouble is when we try to have a bunch of different forehands as we are developing. You need to groove one forehand as your bread and butter. That is your center piece stroke. It always and I mean always needs to have this element in it - hit well through the ball. The key to professional forehands is the length in their stroke. If you watch video after video you will see what I mean. Very long strokes even on the "windshield wiper" type they extend in the arm.

[Bungalow Bill]

Bungalow Bill,

Thanks.

No problem! Let me know if you need any other questions.

[shootermcmarc0]

On low balls, I find it hard to use the wrist release for some reason. I think if I keep it firmer, I can wiper it better. Everytime I try to wrist release those low balls, it feels like I'm golfing it. Any suggestions?

[mntlblok]

A real good clip to watch is Fererros clip. It has all the elements of a successful forehand. Try and relax the wrist some, and place the butt cap against the palm of your hand for leverage and control. Then once you do that relax your hand some.

Sounds very good. Reminds me of a suggestion from a pro once that I should really only grip with the last three fingers.

Where we get in trouble is when we try to have a bunch of different forehands as we are developing. You need to groove one forehand as your bread and butter. That is your center piece stroke. It always and I mean always needs to have this element in it - hit well through the ball. The key to professional forehands is the length in their stroke. If you watch video after video you will see what I mean. Very long strokes even on the "windshield wiper" type they extend in the arm.

Great stuff. I am definitely seeing that now from the clips you posted - especially when I compare them to my own sad videos.

That length in their strokes reminds me of what I *think* I might be seeing in Federer's stroke that differs from other forehands. Maybe it could be measured with the high speed clips.

While watching his forehands in the two articles, I was reminded of an old fellow who was hitting while I was waiting on a court (nearly 30 years ago). Something about his classic forehand just looked *different* with him. I finally decided that he was starting his swing much sooner relative to when the ball was on its way toward him than other players - like maybe starting *his* swing *before* the ball bounced, when others might start theirs *after* it bounced, for example. I think I remember him even doing it on half volleys. It was an incredibly graceful looking stroke, and he was a very good player.

I've wondered about that over the years, and decided that he was just gifted in being able to estimate better where the ball was going to be when he ultimately made contact, recognizing it sooner and more accurately than most mortals.

I wonder if that is also true with Roger - starting his swing while the ball is further away from him. I wonder if maybe his acceleration through the ball is more "gradual" than most other players making him look "smoother".

If he is sometimes swinging with a straight arm, then it would seem that it would take longer for that longer radius of his shoulder-hand length to get to the ball - unless it were a more "jerky", hurried-looking stroke - which I don't think it is. So, I wonder if a more gradual acceleration might be related to the straight arm. What do you think?

Kevin

[ruymendes1]

Agree

I agree and have the same impression. If you accelerate gradually, your brain will have another source of data to "make" the necessary measures to when, where and how hit the ball. The others sources are your eyes and your left arm, that needs to be extended. With a non-stop swing, you will get the much needed momentun, that will turn easy the power generation.
Ruy

[tennismaverick]

The women pros don't seem to hit topspin with such an extreme version as the clips you provided. Justine and Amelie seemed to be the exception but on the men's side it seems like most men except the greatest of all time, Pete Sampras, hit with a more extreme version of the swoosh or wiper or combo. Why is that? It doesn't seem like it would take more strength? It seems like it would require better timing and reflexes though. At the risk of being political incorrect, do women have slower reflexes and timing then men? Or is it something else?

[Bungalow Bill]

The women pros don't seem to hit topspin with such an extreme version as the clips you provided. Justine and Amelie seemed to be the exception but on the men's side it seems like most men except the greatest of all time, Pete Sampras, hit with a more extreme version of the swoosh or wiper or combo. Why is that? It doesn't seem like it would take more strength? It seems like it would require better timing and reflexes though. At the risk of being political incorrect, do women have slower reflexes and timing then men? Or is it something else?

That is a good question and one I would defer to biomechanic experts. I would only be guessing. I do know that women often have trouble rotating their shoulders properly when throwing a ball. Then tend to throw from the elbow, which also shows up in many of the women's serves.

It could also be that type of game women are playing, slower, maybe not as much kick in the ball, etc..