Your Strokes: Kyle LaCroix Forehand

[johnyandell]

Would love to get your thoughts on "Your Strokes - Kyle LaCroix Forehand"

[captnemo]

I have a question for Kyle. Since you are so strong on the double bend at the start of the swing, did you consider just keeping it rather than going straight arm?

[klacr]

I have a question for Kyle. Since you are so strong on the double bend at the start of the swing, did you consider just keeping it rather than going straight arm?

I never consciously thought about double bend or straight arm when hitting or learning my forehand. It just happened. I never had my mind or heart set to have a double bend or a straight just because someone else did, Just a good, no, great forehand and willing to do what is necessary. There is nothing wrong with either but straightening my arm, even just slightly had significant impact on the overall stroke as you can see in the article.

Forum Contributor and author of numerous informative articles on this site Doug Eng has a great article that mentions the "Kaizen" effect.

http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/...ervice_rhythm/

In essence, that is what you are seeing here. John's slight adjustment on something that many would overlook ended up having a profound effect. It is still a work in progress mind you, but one that I can clearly see and can produce improvement. Will I be able to spin the ball with Nadal-esque rpm's? Probably not. But tactically speaking for my game, do I really want to?

I'm also fighting against years of teaching, feeding the ball flat with a continental grip, so when I do finally get to hit some real balls with my forehand grip the swing path is clearly flatter than the ideal. But I've devoted some time to this project to make my forehand better than its ever been. Plus, I can't let John down.

Kyle LaCroix USPTA
Boca Raton

[johnyandell]

Correct. That would be unacceptable.

[gzhpcu]

Having been able to experience Kyle's forehand live, he is even more impressive when hitting live with him. And he is going to visit us here in Lugano around the end of July!

[johnyandell]

The guy gets around. He's coming to SF June 5.

[klacr]

The guy gets around. He's coming to SF June 5.

That first sentence can be taken many ways

I do Travel. For business, for USPTA conferences, speaking engagements, for personal reasons.

Call it my 2016 Serve and Volley Summer of Love World Tour.

NYC, Orlando, San Francisco, Sacramento, Folsom, (https://youtu.be/bJ4IIhlUqrc )
Zurich, Lugano, Stuttgart, Indian Wells, Las Vegas. All planned for this summer. In talks to travel to Melbourne for Aussie Open/ Grand slam coaches convention for a presentation.

Kyle LaCroix USPTA
Boca Raton

[bottle]

My Two Cents

I gotta laugh at the last video but I hope in a nice way.

Watch how Kyle floats the racket while he turns his body an extra amount with adjustment steps.

The future of it to me is this last instant extra turn of the body no matter how it happens, and there is no question but that this movement can be more smoothed out.

I'm working from a handbodhandbod formula derived from reading Dennis Ralston, who simply says to lead backswing with the hand.

From that I may get too fancy or maybe I'm on to something (admittedly a dangerous claim).

My straight arm forehand has recently become a bit less straight, a bit more bent, with final arm movement a single explosion of elbow out and up to back of hand against opposite ear (Bam! but yeah with deceleration as racket comes back).

The singlemindedness or Zen Buddhism of this however doesn't mean that a lot can't happen during the relaxed explosion so "anti-lead-elbow": mondo and wipe with weight transfer delayed until the wipe and blood trying to squirt out through one's fingertips.

That's me, there's Kyle. But I do not see Kyle with body religiously and completely turned to start backswing before his arm does anything.

[don_budge]

Footwork…Lower Body?

I never consciously thought about double bend or straight arm when hitting or learning my forehand. It just happened. I never had my mind or heart set to have a double bend or a straight just because someone else did, Just a good, no, great forehand and willing to do what is necessary. There is nothing wrong with either but straightening my arm, even just slightly had significant impact on the overall stroke as you can see in the article.

Forum Contributor and author of numerous informative articles on this site Doug Eng has a great article that mentions the "Kaizen" effect.

http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/...ervice_rhythm/

In essence, that is what you are seeing here. John's slight adjustment on something that many would overlook ended up having a profound effect. It is still a work in progress mind you, but one that I can clearly see and can produce improvement. Will I be able to spin the ball with Nadal-esque rpm's? Probably not. But tactically speaking for my game, do I really want to?

I'm also fighting against years of teaching, feeding the ball flat with a continental grip, so when I do finally get to hit some real balls with my forehand grip the swing path is clearly flatter than the ideal. But I've devoted some time to this project to make my forehand better than its ever been. Plus, I can't let John down.

Kyle LaCroix USPTA
Boca Raton

Do I detect some changes in the footwork as well…compared to the original?

[klacr]

Do I detect some changes in the footwork as well…compared to the original?

Perhaps. . Good eye.

The type of ball I was receiving made what you see ideal. But John took plenty of video and probably saw me in numerous stances. But once we got my forehand going it all came much more naturally. One thing leads to another...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T5ru5uHZlII

Kyle LaCroix USPTA
Boca Raton

[alexbourne]

Question for Kyle

What grip do you use? Eastern?When you are at the end of your backswing, with forearm parallel to baseline ( it seems that way) where is the bottom of your forearm pointing to? It seems to me that it is partly pointing to the ground but also a bit to the front? Is this correct? Arm and forearm neutral position rather than forearm pronated. I have been trying to pronate the forearm more to get more lag but sometimes late, maybe I should keep racquet to the side with the palm facing down and slightly to the front rather than palm facing more to the backfence. I thought the pat the dog position meant turn the palm to the back fence more rather than palm down and slightly to the front. Does this make sense to you Kyle and all others in this forum.Thanks

[johnyandell]

Alex,
It would be great to see some video of your forehand. But a couple of general thoughts. I'd refer to Kyle's "after" racket face angle at the top of the backswing as "tap the dog," stealing that phrase from Rick Macci. There is a lot of mistaken understanding about how much the face closes ( the full "pat the dog" with the face pointing all the way down) and when. In fact it's mainly a variable that is related to contact height and a natural part of the forward swing when other elements are right.
Look at Kyle's "after" backswing position followed by the "pull" to start the forward swing. This is what you want to focus on.
"Lag" is a second trendy term that is allegedly key to the forehand but usually causes problems. Again, I think lag is an effect. Trying to make it happen is usually a recipe for disaster.
Your questions are timely to the article series on the forehand I have been doing for the past several months. I'd suggest you look at these 2 installments and see if that clears things up for you!

http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/teaching_systems/john_yandell/forehand_the_backswing/

http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/teaching_systems/john_yandell/forehand_forward_swing/

[alexbourne]

Alex,
It would be great to see some video of your forehand. But a couple of general thoughts. I'd refer to Kyle's "after" racket face angle at the top of the backswing as "tap the dog," stealing that phrase from Rick Macci. There is a lot of mistaken understanding about how much the face closes ( the full "pat the dog" with the face pointing all the way down) and when. In fact it's mainly a variable that is related to contact height and a natural part of the forward swing when other elements are right.
Look at Kyle's "after" backswing position followed by the "pull" to start the forward swing. This is what you want to focus on.
"Lag" is a second trendy term that is allegedly key to the forehand but usually causes problems. Again, I think lag is an effect. Trying to make it happen is usually a recipe for disaster.
Your questions are timely to the article series on the forehand I have been doing for the past several months. I'd suggest you look at these 2 installments and see if that clears things up for you!

http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/teaching_systems/john_yandell/forehand_the_backswing/

http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/...forward_swing/

Great videos! Thanks! I see the pro's do something different from the other players in the videos. These other players get to the preparation position you suggest but the pros pronate more and the strings are facing the back fence and then Sock,Kyrgios, Berdick have the tip of the racquet facing the net at the beginning of the stroke..For someone like me that wants the simplest most efficient, consistent swing it seems too much!Thanks for offering to take a look at my stroke I will need to video it. So in the position you suggest, at the end of the backswing, the correction you made to Kyle's fh was to change the palm of the hand from pointing diagonally to the back fence to the side fence? Is this accurate? Thank you

[klacr]

What grip do you use? Eastern?When you are at the end of your backswing, with forearm parallel to baseline ( it seems that way) where is the bottom of your forearm pointing to? It seems to me that it is partly pointing to the ground but also a bit to the front? Is this correct? Arm and forearm neutral position rather than forearm pronated. I have been trying to pronate the forearm more to get more lag but sometimes late, maybe I should keep racquet to the side with the palm facing down and slightly to the front rather than palm facing more to the backfence. I thought the pat the dog position meant turn the palm to the back fence more rather than palm down and slightly to the front. Does this make sense to you Kyle and all others in this forum.Thanks

Alex,
Thanks for reading the article. John pretty much summed up the technical stuff to your question, and I would agree as it made a big difference for me.

My grip is an Eastern. Nothing more than that. I've always had a pretty traditional grip, never messed around or became infatuated with the extreme grips, it just wasn't for me.

I understand where you are coming from when you mention pointing the racquet tip towards net and oncoming ball. I thought I had a more pronounced point towards the ball and everything was swell...but video proved me wrong. And thats a good thing.

I'd recommend taking video of yourself as the things you think you are doing or accomplishing may be completely different to what the video shows. Semi-consciously I think I tried to model my forehand after Berdych (my favorite player) but to my surprise from the video and a comment from John during the process comparing my forehand to Djokovic's was a real eye opener. Djokovic? Really?!?. Of all the players, He would be the last one I thought my forehand would resemble.

But then I saw it. And John was right. I was way off and thought my forehand was more Berdych-esque. I literally had no idea my racquet face was pointing that far to back fence. I was shocked and a bit perturbed that what I truly believed my own stroke was doing correctly and consistently was the complete opposite of what was actually happening.

Eyes, hands and an conscious can lie, video (when slowed down) does not.


Kyle LaCroix USPTA
Boca Raton

[johnyandell]

Alex,

In a word yes. You don't need that excess motion. Kyle didn't and his forehand is tour level fast... And Federer for example doesn't have it. He is the model--most of my guys in the video are close to that. Agassi was very similar.

Here is one more awesome Tplayer article from Rick Macci that lays it out:

http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/high_performance/rick_macci/develop_atp_forehand_2/