Pathological Losers: My Vic Braden Interview

[stotty]

Brave New World

I just finished reading "The Adolescent" by Fyodor Dostoyevsky. What an impression this great piece of art has left on me. I feel like I am glowing with new found knowledge. I used to go to the bookstore and buy books five or ten at a time. This book was in my library all of this time. For twenty years it sat there. Perhaps it was fate that I read it during the duration of this thread. I recommend it to you all…particularly if wish to expand your horizons.

Noted...

It goes hand in had with Orwell's 1984.

I like the book 1984 too. I read a long time ago...probably around 1984. It's a book that offers no hope for the future...none.

But I wonder if Brave New World, by Aldous Huxley didn't come closer to predicting the truth about the world we live in....and the way things might continue to unfold.

Brave New World predicts a carefully balanced world where people are kept content by the powers that be. 1984 predicts a world where we are kept in constant war and flux. In 1984 technology barely exists and is indeed virtually removed...everything is austere. In Brave New World technology is at the heart of everything and it predicts how humans may react and use such advanced technology...and, of course, we mishandle it.

Interestingly both novels seek to get rid of the past...

Just a few thoughts....

[don_budge]

The 1984 U. S. Open…John McEnroe and George Orwell

I like the book 1984 too. I read a long time ago...probably around 1984. It's a book that offers no hope for the future...none.

But I wonder if Brave New World, by Aldous Huxley didn't come closer to predicting the truth about the world we live in....and the way things might continue to unfold.

Interestingly both novels seek to get rid of the past...

Just a few thoughts....

Interesting thoughts. I think one reason I refer to 1984 is because of the 1984 U. S. Open. Besides being so dead on and so uncanny in his predictions…Orwell nailed the exact year or as far as I can tell that we as a race of people made the turn into a future that turns mankind in a totally different direction. One where he gives up his will and lets technology and the powers that be do his thinking for him.

I like Aldous Huxley very much. I read "Brave New World" years ago and I must make it a point to read it again…once I am finished writing my "John McEnroe" epic here. Aldous Huxley wrote a book called "The Doors of Perception" which is about his experiences of ingesting mescaline…I believe that it was. It was a sensational book that explores alternative reality's inside the Gold Mine of the brain. Jim Morrison of "The Doors" was so impressed with the book that he named his band after the book.

My sister taped "Super Saturday" at the U. S. Open in 1984 and gave it to me as a Christmas gift. It was the first time that both of the men's singles semifinals were played sandwiching the ladies finals. That year it was Ivan Lendl defeating Pat Cash in five sets…Lendl saved match points against him with some miraculous tennis. Martina Navratilova defeated Chrissie Evert in the ladies final in three excellent sets. The finest ladies tennis match that I have ever personally witnessed. Then it was the "bad" boys in the twilight/night match…John McEnroe versus James Scott Connors. It was a thrilling match from start to finish…another five setter. Oh yeah…the 35 and over semis was the first match of the day…Stan Smith versus John Newcombe. Bud Collins…the famous tennis historian claimed for years that this had been the greatest day of tennis ever.

Lendl vs Cash (turn off the volume if you don't speak French)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjtEjWMylJo

McEnroe vs Connors (excellent commentary with Tony Trabert, Pat Summerall and even the great John Newcombe)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_lugeOh-Ls&list=PL3A8ECD260244DA15

Evert vs Navratilova

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p2ABBoMxqqo

For the first time ever all of the men players were using oversized racquets in a Grand Slam semifinal. It was effectively the end of an era. For a number of years the big racquets had been making their way into the hands of the professionals and it worked its way up to the top. The last players to capitulate to the new equipment were the at the top of the game. Bjorn Borg had already exited the stadium and I suspect that he wasn't happy about the equipment change.

But another Orwellian twist to the tapes that my sister gave me was that all of the commercials on that day…or perhaps I should say like JeffMac…99% of the commercials were computers. They were the among the first offerings by Apple, IBM, Hewlett Packard and another on that slips my mind. The funny things looking back at these computers were how big they were and how "ungodly" slow they must have been. Our iPhones are infinitely quicker and more powerful. So it is the irony that the computer was making its way into our lives and look how it has crept into each of our lives so insidiously…now we cannot live without it. So did the big racquet syndrome…we cannot live without them either. An extraordinary, ironic Orwellian twist.

John McEnroe was right in the middle of the whole thing. He straddled the two worlds of tennis. Its true that there are people that would rather destroy the past. They make humiliating statements to try and reign in those that dare to refer to things that have happened and they wish that it would all just go away. But there is a story in it. A very interesting story as a matter of fact. Maybe it will just take the perfect storm to bring it back into focus. But its important for those that follow the game of tennis to fully understand exactly what happened when the game was transitioning to bigger equipment after a hundred years or so of standard sized wooden racquets.

These matches that I post from time to time are excellent…don't you think so? The play is infinitely more interesting than the modern game. Its a great example of something going dreadfully wrong. Something was destroyed and lost in the rush to make money. Something that was treasured by a whole race of people at the time. But it is also an excellent example of the nature of the human being. The greed and the rush to take advantage of your opponent by using equipment that should have been illegal from the very beginning. It tells you a lot about the human race…and as usual it isn't all that pretty. For 99% of the race…it is dog eat dog.

[stotty]

Classic and modern...

These matches that I post from time to time are excellent…don't you think so? The play is infinitely more interesting than the modern game. Its a great example of something going dreadfully wrong. Something was destroyed and lost in the rush to make money. Something that was treasured by a whole race of people at the time. But it is also an excellent example of the nature of the human being. The greed and the rush to take advantage of your opponent by using equipment that should have been illegal from the very beginning. It tells you a lot about the human race…and as usual it isn't all that pretty. For 99% of the race…it is dog eat dog.

Thanks for posting those matches. I will certainly watch them bit by bit. I am really enjoying the older matches right now.

I think 1984 was a crossroads. Things were certainly beefing up. Players still hadn't learned to take full advantage of the new, bigger bats but pretty soon they would.

I make a very clear distinction. Wood is classic and everything else isn't...not even the first diddy metal rackets count for me. The T2000 is definitely streets ahead of a Maxply.

For me, classic and modern are two different games. I doubt some of the players are interchangeable between classic and modern either. I am skeptical some modern players could make the jump to classic and vice versa. And that's not because I would be expecting players to make a sudden switch to a game they are alien to. It's more that the qualities of the respective eras are different. I could be wrong but that's the way I am seeing it right now after watching countless clips going back to 50's and even beyond.

[don_budge]

1984 Racquet Issues...

1984 Wimbledon Finals…John McEnroe beat Jimmy Connors 6-1, 6-1, 6-2. A tremendous shellacking by McEnroe. McEnroe using the "new" Dunlop midsize and Connors hanging onto his dinosaur Wilson T2000.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EoOwJlysdLI

A great McEnroe interview conducted by Bud Collins. McEnroe notes that Connors seemed "a half a step slow on his shots" without mentioning the racquet size disparity.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cNPuvswAvks

Come September Connors has switched to a Wilson midsize ProStaff. He isn't going to be caught "half a step slow again".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cNPuvswAvks

The change in equipment was something that the top players really wrestled with. They were old enough to have enough respect for the game that they were hesitant and resisted the change until there wasn't any wiggle room left. It was a very difficult decision for them…it was about something bigger than money to them. But in the end there wasn't any way out…it was switch or disappear the hard way.

Interesting…watch McEnroe's repeated use of the SABR. He is really putting pressure on Connors serve by going to the net behind his return. He did this too against Lendl the next day in the final. He straight setted Lendl in the finals.

[stotty]

Wembley

McEnroe is a smart player. Let me tell you a quick story. I saw John McEnroe play John Lloyd's brother David Lloyd in the first round at Wembley in 1978. David Lloyd was tricky. He's a real bulldog character and a force of nature, but he had a weak backhand, which was a fatal flaw against McEnroe as you can imagine.

Nine years earlier in 1969 at the same event a 20 year-old David lost 5-7 6-4 5-7 to Pancho Gonzales. Pancho Gonzales told Dennis, David's father, that David had the best overhead he had ever played against, and that he couldn't get a single lob over his head. David had a tremendous overhead and could jump high and "hang" in the air...a useful quality to have. Pancho was certainly amazed by it....and he had seen a lot.

But I have digressed...meandered. Nevertheless the story is fuller and you have greater perspective that David was fairly good player.

McEnroe couldn't work David out at first. David stood right over on his ad court return and invited forehands....he got them. David had a great forehand and he pelted them directly at McEnroe time and time again. Word had got out that McEnroe was a less effective volleyer if you could hit hard into his body. I wasn't convinced of the tactic...then or now. McEnroe struggled in his first few services and nearly got broken. But then he started to alter his service position along the baseline to make sure he hit David's backhand in the ad court every time....wherever David stood to return. Once David started to expect backhands, he then got forehands, and aces started to rain in - everything quickly unravelled after that and David lost 6-4 6-2. But it was an interesting match for two reasons 1)because I knew David. 2)it was the first time I had witnessed just how effective McEnroe was with his serve. That serve did all the work.

This thread has unearthed some great memories....

[bottle]

My sister taped "Super Saturday" at the U. S. Open in 1984 and gave it to me as a Christmas gift.

I didn't know you have a sister. What is she like?

[don_budge]

The Sisters…The Insane Asylum

I didn't know you have a sister. What is she like?

But I thought you knew! Actually I have three…all of them nurses. Or rather formerly nurses. My eldest…and favorite…has spent a lot of time in mental health. When I was home over Christmas she took me to an absolutely amazing, incredible former asylum for the insane. It was being converted to condos, restaurants and shops. This is in Traverse City, Michigan…a gorgeous spot on earth.

But when we went to the former asylum we met this rather strange individual. It was Christmas Eve and my sister, her husband who teaches cello at Interlochen, and I met this fellow who insisted that he was there to meet with his yoga instructor. He then proceeded to offer to show us around the place and act as a tour guide. As we meandered around this guys presence became a bit spooky. He was carrying a backpack and wearing camouflage.

We came to a room that was locked. The place reminded me eerily of that hotel in "The Shining". I looked through the crack of the doors and had this very strange sensation…I can't describe it. My whole trip back to the States had been one of deja vu, past life reincarnation, jet lag and culture shock. But what I said as I looked through the crack in the doorway is…"I would desperately like to paint this room from the vantage point of this crack." The strange fellow made some kind of remark as if he had done such a painting. It struck me as highly unusual…as he left us he said, "see you around". My sister said that it might not be altogether impossible that ghosts still inhabit the place. This particular meeting left an indelible impression on my psyche. What the hell was that character doing there on Christmas Eve. We were there purchasing a gift certificate at a restaurant for my sister's husband's daughter.

But the other sister that I was referring to in the post where she taped that day at the 1984 U. S. Open is another story altogether. You can well suspect that in our family nothing is "business as usual". She's left-handed, piercing blue eyes and temperamental. She was a stunning looker when she was young and still is for her age. She likes John McEnroe. She was married to a real character…who's name is John.

PS…love the McEnroe story at Wembly Stotty!

[klacr]

But I thought you knew! Actually I have three…all of them nurses. Or rather formerly nurses. My eldest…and favorite…has spent a lot of time in mental health. When I was home over Christmas she took me to an absolutely amazing, incredible former asylum for the insane. It was being converted to condos, restaurants and shops. This is in Traverse City, Michigan…a gorgeous spot on earth.

Traverse City, The Cherry Festival.
Petoskey and Charlevoix. All Gorgeous places.

Kyle LaCroix USPTA
Boca Raton

[bottle]

Traverse City, The Cherry Festival.
Petoskey and Charlevoix. All Gorgeous places.

Kyle LaCroix USPTA
Boca Raton

Kyle-- To try to do what I preach and return if only for a moment this thread to its start, I prefer your own encounter with Vic Braden to that in the article as I do my own and that of Harry Constant in Grosse Pointe, who played for Hillsboro College against Kalamazoo when Vic was there (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fFv_PoZ2iP0).

[don_budge]

Whisper…whisper. Psst…its Vic Braden commentatoe

I hear the whispers. Don't think that I am deaf…and dumb. Not for a moment. Old-fashioned? Not a bit. Discerning? Yes…admittedly so.

So here you go. Those that cannot phantom how John McEnroe figures in on a thread that is titled…"Pathological Losers: My Vic Braden Interview". You see it's all a matter of connecting the dots. It's not hijacking. If I can solve the reason or reasons for the "dysfunction" of John McEnroe's perceived dysfunction then I hold the key to coaching and teaching tennis to lesser dysfunctional students…if indeed this is the case. Catch my drift? No? Of course not. It's my own little "Private Idaho"…it's don_quixotic. The voice in the wilderness.

So I was watching the semifinal of the 1980 U. S. Open with John McEnroe defeating Jimmy Connors in five excellent sets of classic tennis. Two lefties. One a one handed backhand and the other two handed. Two completely different styles. Two guys with obvious attitudes…but different to the nth degree. Two guys who absolutely hated to lose. Two guys who really deep down inside don't like each other. More on that match later.

But lo and behold…this match came up next on youtube…it's McEnroe and Connors when they are all "grown up". McEnroe is 39 and Connors is 46. Grown up being a relative term. One fine poster referred to a video hit piece of McEnroe when he had "mellowed". Why the hell should anyone mellow? Connors said he is going to make old man time work for it. That he did. You can ride off into the sunset on the pony of your choice. There's the Marlon Brando steed that just gave it all back…growing fatter by the day and farting in front of Larry King during an interview. Who am I to judge? It was Marlon Brando for gosh sake.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5vAZkTLOkKs

But perhaps you wonder about my reference to staying on thread…did I mention that? Maybe I didn't. But the three little dots take you where they take you. People don't think in straight lines. At least I don't. I suppose there is evidence here that some actually do. But since I do not it is difficult for me to understand how some do. Ok…some do. I get it. Am I so impossible to get? No…not at all. It just took a while to get to know me.

This match has none other than good old jolly Vic Braden. This was a great find and hopefully it will make good old JeffMac feel a bit more at ease. He took quite a lot of verbiage and logic which sort of upset his applecart of "Gonzo" think. It won't hold up…over time. At first it is funny…or at the most a bit funny. But in the end if you want to support your belief you have "got to be serious" which is of course one of John McEnroe first rules of thumb. Nonsense won't cut it.

Watch and listen to the older boys playing a game that seemingly doesn't matter to anybody on the face of the planet yet here they are straining and grunting for every ball on every point. Arguing over line calls. But don't get upset…it's only part of the schtick. Show business.

McEnroe and Connors? They are just guys who happen to have played tennis at the very highest level of the game. Here they are exposing themselves in their decline…unashamedly. They have nothing to be embarrassed about…nothing to hide. Like some others. Like all of us…Pathetic Losers.

[klacr]

Kyle-- To try to do what I preach and return if only for a moment this thread to its start, I prefer your own encounter with Vic Braden to that in the article as I do my own and that of Harry Constant in Grosse Pointe, who played for Hillsboro College against Kalamazoo when Vic was there (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fFv_PoZ2iP0).

It was a wild and crazy trip. Never learned so much about so much in that span of time I was driving him. Agree or disagree with his thoughts and explanations, he gave his life to tennis and helped people discover their love for the sport.

Kyle LaCroix USPTA
Boca Raton

[gzhpcu]

Unfortunately was never lucky enough to personally meet Vic, so you are lucky Kyle. He came off in his videos as a very positive motivator and nice guy.

[don_budge]

Vic Braden speaks...

"Both of these guys are pretty volatile guys and they put their heart and soul into everything…it's the little things that go wrong that effect them more than normal people.

But you gotta learn how to manage anger…the prisons are full of people who cannot."

At 36.00 in the video…it is a bizarre match between the two American psychopaths. Vic Braden makes the above comment. As it turns out…if you follow the match just a bit longer…a spectator got involved somehow with the players and somehow that provoked the controversy. He was escorted from the scene by police officers.

It was little things that bothered them that got blown up out of proportion. But look here…its the 1980 U. S. Open semifinal between the same two players. Plenty of attitude but over five sets minimal controversy. Both playing with standard sized racquets still.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OcDF08fg21A

[bottle]

Both he-- Vic Braden and his scrawny brother, the head of a Washington, D.C. agency-- seemed to know a lot about psychology, and Vic about the psychology of learning.

[JeffMac]

budge...Your Strange and Winding Road...

...yes budge, you may have taken some "Road Less Traveled." As that is such a noble thing in and of itself? lol I can just imagine you saying those three words with piety and breathless reverence. Oh...you're so delightfully naïve; and patently idealistic in some fantasy land that your road has led you to...

...But back to the exact nature of this proverbial "road" that you worship so ardently. Has it value? Well...maybe so, and maybe not so much my good friend and colleague in epistemological undertakings.

Take for example this Uber driver guy in Kalamazoo Michigan that just shot a sh*t load of innocent sheep over the weekend just for kicks, I suppose...I think it's fair to say that he has also taken a fairly infrequently traveled road. Quite different than yours, of course, but the same insofar as it is highly idiosyncratic.

What does that say about "roads less travelled" per se?

A question: Is the Uber guy also one of those misunderstood and unappreciated "bad guys" that you love to exonerate, and venerate, and celebrate? Like McEnroe, Nastase and Tony Montano? You clearly seem to like people whose roads have taken them over to the dark side--that the rest of humanity has a hard time comprehending.

Is that a fair assessment? I think so. What say you? I'm very interested in learning more about your very curious "road."..as I am a student of the social--psychological--philosophical--athletic arts. I am even seriously considering coming to Sweden to conduct a gonzo interview of one budge. I will try to make sure that it is not in the "lowest third of all gonzo interviews" ever conducted. lol When might you be available my friend?

Sorry JeffMac…you don't have that kind of power. In the MOVIE…Scarface, aka Tony Montano, is covered by a hail of automatic weapon fire from the Columbian drug cartel. This was his fate that he sealed with his karma. He wasn't set free…he got what was coming to him. The original Scarface was Al Capone don't forget. He, too was hobnobbing with the system and it was difficult to draw the line where his turf began and where the law ended. Its fixed alright. Right down to the last Manchurian Candidate. Just ask Justice Scalia. Remember that election that was decided by the Supreme Court? The separation of powers. Obama conveniently will try to name the next judge to tip the scales once again. Maybe he will name himself. What a nightmare! What a BAD movie…so many bad guys. We'd kill for a good guy…wouldn't we?

In the MOVIE starring Al Pacino…the character in the scene is merely telling the truth about how the whole thing works. He was entwined with the law, the government and the banks and a host of "bad" guys. The MOVIE was about the drug world, where again the lines of demarcation are not what they might appear to be to the casual observer. Its a strange conglomeration of government, military, police, the legal system and some bad guys. Some useful idiots out of work and too much time on their hands. With the careful science of labelling the bad guys are just that…they are bad guys, but some of the good guys are really not all that good. In fact…they are just as bad and worse. You see...Tony Montano was just a pawn. The Kings and Queens could very well have been sitting in that very same restaurant that he was imploding at…most probably they were as he suggests…hiding.

So absolutely nothing has been summed up…phooey to your 99%…you've been watching too many polls. But I know you liked that line about playing psychologist or was it psychiatrist. Talk about a flawed world…let's talk about the world of mental health. But he doesn't have the time he laments…not to mention the qualification. If I am existing in the 1% that you imply…that's ok with me.

During this pleasant exchange that you and I have been having I finished three books that have given me an immense sense of "self-help". They were a couple of novels by Somerset Maughm and one by Fyodor Dostoyevsky. "The Razor's Edge" and "Of Human Bondage", along with "The Adolescent". Reading these great works of literature gives me some clarity about the human beast, condition and the nature of it. It isn't always that simple to say this is the good guy and this is the bad guy. Well it isn't simple if you aren't really truly simple. I guess the simpler you are the simpler it is. 99% don't have such a hard time…they just nod and go along with the status quo and head for the edge of the cliff with the rest of the herd.

The world is a dangerous place JeffMac. Its a very dangerous place and its not because the likes of me are in charge…its because far too many people take the same road that you and The Church Lady do. A man sees what he wants to see and disregards the rest. Some people that I converse with have suggested that I should be in politics. I would have the real bad guys and traitors locked up…or better. But I treasure my life and my love of life. Its true…I have taken the road less traveled. But that's ok…and please do remember…I am only the messenger. Regarding my moral compass…I would have to say that is between the Lord and myself. Just like it is with you…and The Church Lady.

But anyways…back to John McEnroe.