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Pathological Losers: My Vic Braden Interview

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  • #76
    One Last Thing budge...Before I Go to My Room Alone...

    ...I got stopped out because there were too many characters in that last post. I do carry on sometimes. There was one last thing I wanted to say about John McEnroe...

    I have never said that McEnroe was a "pathological loser," as you said I did. Au contraire. I believe that you misunderstood me. The PL label refers to neurotics who are chronic chokers. McEnroe was nothing if not a non-choker. He was a winner.

    And so that's it. The long reign of terror is now finally behind you, my dear budge. Your life can finally return to normal. It is time to turn on the music and lift up the blinds. It is time to break out those dancing shoes. You have my solemn guarantee. Your idol shall ne'er be taken to task again in these hallowed pages of intellectual intercourse. At least not by yours truly.

    I am going to slap a permanent gag order on myself when it comes to mentioning the name of that player whose name must not be spoken on these pages ever again...except to say that he was without a doubt the greatest player to ever live...and a paragon of virtue and sportsmanship...except by me, of course, because as we know I have pledged to you that I cherish the opportunity to become a dumb mute...a mere beast...a non-entity devoid of my other former tennis friends the Watcher, and bottle too...I can think of no more fitting punishment for one so offensive as myself....seeing no evil, hearing no evil, and certainly speaking no evil, particularly of that player whose name shall no longer be spoken of herein...

    Ya know...this is starting to remind me of one of those wacky religions where it is taboo to mention the name of the Almighty...

    For I fear that I have gravely wounded you oh budge, and you might therefore be on the verge of some untoward personal episode. God forbid.

    I know what you're probably thinking: This post ranks in the "lowest third" of all the posts on this site. Just like the Laver article. That was really tough to take. Unbreak my heart budge. Oh well...I guess I can't disagree.

    So now oh budge, I will wrap things up by borrowing from one of my personal heroes--the inimitable Richard M. Nixon--in his immortal checkers speech from the '60's: "You won't have JeffMac to kick around anymore," budge, because I realize that I must go to my room where I will remain--under voluntary confinement--until I can look at the "Man in the Mirror," and dance like Michael Jackson.

    Good-bye and good luck. Perhaps we shall meet again in the next Life.





    Originally posted by JeffMac View Post
    Many moons ago when I was less than 67.5 years old, instead of on the hard side of that same number, I wrote a long treatise to you explaining the essence of "gonzo" journalism. I said something to the effect that it's my form of mental masturbation. I get off on it.

    Health conditions have actually changed my personality in such a way that this material naturally pours forth, when once it did not. I don't even enjoy conventional prose anymore. To wit, I have written a 1200 page book that is mostly gonzified. And no matter how much you beg me to sell you a copy, I must, for the sake of your welfare decline to meet your requests--regardless of how furtive they may become. For I have come to understand that you are very sensitive. I fear driving you any further into the shadows of perpetual despair.

    Therefore, in the future, I am going to refrain from saying anything even remotely critical of you. Even when you say things which are clearly fallacious--as was recently the case with McEnroe. I want to say one last thing about what future generations of tennisplayer.net participants will refer to as the great McEnroe debate of 2016. Long after we have returned to dust, younger subscribers such as the Guatamalans--the Watcher and the beer bottle--will sing our praises and speak of these Halcyon days in which McEnroe's controversial legacy was considered.

    I enjoyed reading that quote you posted from his biography--which I have not read, but would certainly enjoy doing so. Seriously. He is the most fascinating character to ever walk across the international tennis stage.

    However, just because he may have feared the effect that the onslaught of technology might have on his future, this does not confer a causal link. (By the way, he said he didn't like it; he didn't say it was causing him to become incensed). I firmly believe that this had nothing to do with his objectionable behavior. As far as I'm concerned he is just characterologically impaired--as we all are. However, his condition is clearly beyond the pale. When I said that I felt sorry for him, I meant it.

    That said, I truly understand how much you admire him for his genius. And the fact that you got to meet him is probably also significant. I believe that when we interact with certain historically important people we tend to feel connected to them.

    Anyway, I know that this is certainly true for me. I played tennis several times with Robert Redford at Newcombe's Tennis Resort in 1972. Since that time I have been fascinated by him.

    These attachments are harmless fetishes. But they can affect our objectivity. I forgive you for your inability to look at your hero in a more realistic light. Whereas, most of the world sees aberrence, you see only the gifted savant. Fine.

    And that's the last thing I'm going to say about McEnroe.

    Comment


    • #77
      Not

      Hah, hah, no ending here. There's never an ending anywhere, and seldom a change either except for me, a merlot bottle instead of a beer bottle at 76 years of age and hopefully growing more childish every day.

      If you and don_budge were sitting together at breakfast in Peterborough at The MacDowell Colony, JeffMac, just sitting there and waiting for the New Hampshire Primary to roll in, you'd be very surprised at how cordially well you and don_budge would get along.

      It would be me, not don_budge, you would need to worry about, a very likely character conflict unless you knew how to play Edwin Arlington Robinson's version of cowboy pool and could run 40 points so as to flip the overhead chips across on their wire and put your name on a century's worth of achievement plaques.

      Konrad, head of MacDowell: "That guy's not a composer. He's a pool player."

      As for John McEnroe seated at the same table, he could not only play pool well but never have to say a word at breakfast since he could speak with his hands. There to write the sequel to YOU CANNOT BE SERIOUS.

      The character conflict between you and me, JeffMac (your name by the way contains the explanation of your antipathy to McEnroe), based on my late life rejection of Hunter Thompson, Norman Mailer and Tom Wolfe, would resemble that between me and Alex Waugh.

      That one however was based on a very different three-pronged foundation: 1) My study of Alex Waugh's eating habits regarding soft-boiled eggs and 2) I got the girl and 3) I was the only colonist Alex didn't invite to his party (but the girl told me about it later that night afterward).
      Last edited by bottle; 02-09-2016, 03:35 PM.

      Comment


      • #78
        Kings, Mac, Japanese proverb....

        Originally posted by JeffMac View Post
        That said, I truly understand how much you admire him for his genius. And the fact that you got to meet him is probably also significant. I believe that when we interact with certain historically important people we tend to feel connected to them.

        Anyway, I know that this is certainly true for me. I played tennis several times with Robert Redford at Newcombe's Tennis Resort in 1972. Since that time I have been fascinated by him.

        These attachments are harmless fetishes. But they can affect our objectivity. I forgive you for your inability to look at your hero in a more realistic light. Whereas, most of the world sees aberrence, you see only the gifted savant. Fine.
        Good point and quite true. Having met one or two famous dignitaries in my life, I can tell you one automatically develops an unhealthy affinity towards them. I tell myself we all breath the same air and break wind yet for some reason I hold them in far greater esteem than I do myself.

        I guess this is why politicians still do door door-to-door canvasing....

        On Radio 4, a great radio programme over here in the UK, an historian (should that be an historian or a historian?) was talking about kings (should I be using a capital K?) and why they must keep distance between themselves and those they rule. Apparently, you have to through layers of people to get to a king, and the core reason for this is because the king, nor those closest to him, wants you to see he is just like anyone else (or should that be everyone else?).

        Grammar has always been a terrible challenge for me...I write by ear.

        Originally posted by don_budge View Post

        I want to interview Björn Borg as to why he retired when he did and why he attempted a comeback using his beloved Donnay wooden frames in an era that had already moved on to the oversized graphite.
        If you ever manage to interview Bjorn, please can you share the outcome with me. I am burning to ask those same questions.

        You cannot get near him when he comes over here. He gets driven straight in to the Wimbledon grounds and spirited away. You then don't see him again until appears on centre court to watch matches from the royal box.

        Originally posted by don_budge View Post

        John McEnroe, Björn Borg and Vitas Gerulaitis were apparently great friends…and you can always tell what a man is like from the company he keeps. These guys were having a party.
        There is an old Japanese proverb: When the character of a man is not clear to you, look at his friends. It's good proverb, I've applied it often.

        "A return to wooden rackets would be a huge improvement for professional tennis. The biggest change in the game in the last twenty-five years, the replacement of wood by graphite, has been a bad one. I happen to think that wooden rackets are beautiful aesthetically and purer for the game....
        I think McEnroe's quote strengthens your argument (and mine) no end. Now let me tell you of another man's plight I know:

        I coach a talented photographer. His name is Rod. He photographed David Bowie and many others like him in the 60's and 70's. Back then, he says, it took great skill to take great photos. It was an intricate business. Now, he says, cameras are so good amateurs can get close to taking good photos...not great photos, but good ones. Photography, he says, has been deskilled....dumbed down.

        We can say the same of wooden rackets and modern rackets.

        The bottom line, I think, lies in wanting, and getting, something for nothing. People want everything without having to work too hard...
        Last edited by stotty; 02-09-2016, 02:44 PM.
        Stotty

        Comment


        • #79
          Gosh, JeffMac,

          What's your beef with McEnroe?

          Sure, maybe he was a bit "temperamental"... (in Sweden too of all places...)

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C8Nyc9jzSDg

          I mean we need to be tolerant don't we? Not like the narrow-minded Aussies...

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_2rjocv-Jo

          Comment


          • #80
            Yikes! Seem to have touched a nerve...
            Last edited by gzhpcu; 02-10-2016, 12:31 AM.

            Comment


            • #81
              Qed

              Comment


              • #82
                "It's the last time your going to see a bad guy like this…"-John McEnroe

                Originally posted by gzhpcu View Post
                Gosh, JeffMac,

                What's your beef with McEnroe?

                Sure, maybe he was a bit "temperamental"... (in Sweden too of all places...)

                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C8Nyc9jzSDg

                I mean we need to be tolerant don't we? Not like the narrow-minded Aussies...

                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_2rjocv-Jo
                "In Sweden of all places…". What's that supposed to mean Saint Phil? John McEnroe was playing a Swede when he was disqualified at the Australian Open too. Is there some hidden meaning there too? You are a sniper Phil. Nothing tangible to add…99 times out of 100. Just little snippets. And that's ok…it's just the way that you are…the way you roll. Pathological loser…it's your style and that's great. I like it so much there isn't any point in responding to any of your shots disguised as posts…I like to just sit back and admire or whatever.



                So here's one for you Saint Phil and Dolly Llama JeffMac and all of the other "sensitive and tolerant" readers on the forum…why it's Tony Montana of Scarface fame. I love this scene. He's telling the hoity toity, posh and ritzy crowd in a swank Miami feeding trough what the real deal is. Pathetic losers or Pathological losers…what's the difference? You (we) are all a bunch of losers…except for the occasional saint. You know who you are. Nobody here gets out alive.

                Al Pacino going Montana. Going McEnroe. Going Gonzo!

                "What are you looking at? You're all a bunch of fucking assholes. You know why? Because you don't have the guts to be what you want to be. You need people like me…you need people like me so you can point your fucking fingers and say that's the bad guy. So…what does that make you? Good? You're not good…you just know how to hide. How to lie. Me…I don't have that problem. Me…I always tell the truth. Even when I lie.

                So say good night to the bad guy. C'mon. It's that last time you're going to see a bad guy like this…let me tell you. Make way for the bad guy. There's a bad guy coming through. You'd better get out of his way."

                I would have shook his hand, looked him square in the eye and said, "Good night Mr. Montana. I hope that you are feeling better tomorrow." I'm not scared of bad guys…they have their bad days too. Just like you and I…they put their pants on one leg at a time.
                Last edited by don_budge; 02-10-2016, 04:18 AM.
                don_budge
                Performance Analysthttps://www.tennisplayer.net/bulleti...ilies/cool.png

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                • #83
                  Originally posted by don_budge View Post
                  John McEnroe was playing a Swede when he was disqualified at the Australian Open too. Is there some hidden meaning there too?
                  Hey, hadn't noticed! McEnroe must have had something against Swedes, I guess...
                  Last edited by gzhpcu; 02-10-2016, 08:50 AM.

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                  • #84
                    No Causal Link

                    There's no doubt that advancing technology helped a lot of people play better--including me. But there is no evidence that this was the main reason that McEnroe exercised his own "will to power," and disrespected dozens of opponents and millions of fans.

                    There is no causal link!

                    Here's what really happened--for the last time: McEnroe was fawned over by the press and other industry entities. He was told that he was a "genius." An Elvis or a Mozart with a tennis racquet. The view that here was a once in a lifetime, landmark player on the level of Tilden, Budge, Kramer, Gonzales, and Laver was disseminated and ascribed to by millions. Even me. Who else shows up at 19 and is able to beat almost everyone else in the world right out of the chute? Suddenly McEnroe realized that he had a tremendous amount of power.

                    He took advantage of the situation in ways that caused millions of people to cringe. A incendiary combination of opportunism and characterological flaws produced the ugliest displays of sportsmanship ever seen in professional tennis.

                    Another guy emerged on to the scene post McEnroe who was also labeled a great artistic "tennis genius." Why didn't Roger Federer take advantage of the power given him by the worldwide tennis community in the same way McEnroe did?

                    He was reasonable and respectful. He wasn't a selfish narcissist with a massive predilection for self-aggrandizement.

                    In lay mans terms he was a "gentleman" and a "sportsman." McEnroe was, and probably still is, an asshole.

                    So now you know budge...can't we agree to put this matter to rest and start to talk about something else?

                    Originally posted by licensedcoach View Post
                    On all playin
                    g levels, graphite rackets with increased head sizes opened the door to players who might not have succeeded so well without them them.

                    Let me tell you a racket transition story:

                    My last wooden racket was a Wilson Jack Kramer. I really liked that racket and used it for around a couple of years.

                    I was a natural volleyer with a good overhead when I was young. At my club there were a few natural volleyers (always held in high esteem, even envied) and there were less natural volleyers who "made do". These type of players occupied our first team. I played in the first team for thirteen straight years. I might have played longer but by this time I had gotten married, had two children, and had to forego playing matches to earn money.

                    Then there was the second team. None of the second team players volleyed all that well, and their overall game was a little weaker than those in the team above. A handful of second team players were vying for a place in the first team but the gap was too wide and they rarely got the chance to play up.

                    Then the Prince Graphite 110 came along. Soon after, some of those borderline players vying for first team places found they could volley...and smash much better. They gained confidence. The next thing you know they were getting the odd win over first team players....something previously unthinkable. That Prince 110 gave credibility to players who previously had none.

                    The general club player also benefitted no end. He suddenly found the game more accessible than when he had played with a teeny wooden racket.

                    Pro tennis was also being directly affected. In 1977 I went to the Benson and Hedges tournament at Wembley, a major Grand Prix event in the 70's. Borg won it that year beating Britain's John Lloyd in the final. That year a number of players had shot up through the ranks out of the blue and made it into the main draw, all the "out of the blue" players were using the Prince Graphite. They had been getting results against the big boys here and there because, as always, the big boys were sticking with what they have always won with and weren't about to change.

                    I remember 1977 well. It was the game had started to change on all levels and I witnessed it full on. Both at my own club...and well beyond.

                    Comment


                    • #85
                      Not Plausible!!

                      budge--It is not "plausible" that changes in racquet technology were responsible for creating the monster known as McEnroe. It is a rationalization that you have latched on to so that your Diety can remain inviolable in your unusual mind.

                      Originally posted by don_budge View Post
                      I give you two quotes attributed to John McEnroe about the equipment in the game and this is how you answer. Obviously the man had his concerns. Stotty as well gives another view as to how the equipment was changing the landscape at the time. I can imagine that the tier 1 players were not pleased that the tier 2 players were encroaching on their territory.

                      Because of your personal feelings or bias you do not accept evidence that Mr. McEnroe's behavior could plausibly be explained in some other alternative rational terms than the accepted "label" you perpetuate the label.

                      In the summer of 1976 I traveled to New York City for the first time. When the New York skyline came into view I repeated a line from Stevie Wonders "Inner Visions"…"New York, just like I pictured it. Skyscrapers and everything". My friend and I were going on an adventure.

                      We were staying with this Jewish fellow named Jeff Wolfman in Queens. Jeff was a character…he was an aspiring comedian among other things. We went to "Catch a Rising Star" one night and he stepped out of the audience to perform…after a guy dressed up like the pope was doing pro-Hitler jokes. He was excitedly telling my friend and I about this kid from Queens who was going to be the "next Nastase, the next greatest tennis player in the world". He was talking about John McEnroe.

                      The next day after we arrived we went out to some club in the suburbs that was holding qualifying rounds for the U. S. Open. Seventeen year old McEnroe had somehow qualified and in the final round of qualifying he was to play Zan Guerry…a fine tennis player from Lookout Mountain, Tennessee. That year was the year that the Open was played on Har-Tru. Not McEnroe's best surface at that point but he was definitely no slouch on it either.

                      McEnroe and Guerry played a wonderful three set clay court match right down to the end of the match. The outcome was always in question as neither player was able to get control of it. My recollection was that the match was decided in a 9-point sudden death tie-breaker. In the third set in the deciding tie-breaker at 4-all McEnroe won the deciding point on a whisker placed passing shot. But Guerry somehow got an overrule on the ball and the point was replayed. This time Guerry won and he won the match.

                      During the entire three and a half hour match, the match was contested fairly and squarely without any trouble whatsoever. But with this extremely controversial ending McEnroe took his anger into the parking lot where we were sitting near our car. He was sort of kicking gravel and scowling…you can imagine his disappointment. He may have been crying…he was at least close to tears. I suppose that makes him a crybaby in your book. The book of tennis dysfunction. Instead of qualifying for the tournament of his dreams he was tossed out and was only a "pathological loser" for his efforts.

                      He looked at us and I said to him…"you got robbed, man". Maybe those words gave him just a tad of hope back in such a dark moment. I hope that they did. We certainly felt for him…my buddies and me.

                      In 1981 I retold this story to Patrick McEnroe who was 17 or 18 at the time in Louisville where I was traveling with young Aaron Krickstein at the 18 and under Clay Court nationals. Patrick smiled at my recollection and told me that his brother has spoken of that match. He smiled when I told him what I said to John afterwards.

                      John McEnroe had it in his noggin that one day he was going to be the greatest tennis player in the world someday. To climb a mountain so high in an individual sport there are going to be some issues…this is the "virtue" of being selfish. He took it upon himself to make that climb and when he got to the top he realized that the rules had suddenly been changed with regard to the equipment. He had to look at this as something a million times worse than that loss in 1977 at the U. S. Open qualifying. Suddenly the "authorities" were giving every Tom, Dick and Harry the benefit of equipment that could replace the 10,000 hours of toil he had done to get where he was for 229 dollars.

                      The great John McEnroe stood on top of the tennis world in 1984 when he decimated Ivan Lendl in the finals of the U. S. Open. I was there too. He was standing alone at the precipice where the classic game that he was brought up to play was being sold down the river by the "authorities" and he was expected to go along with it. I can easily empathize with him…I was with him every step of the way…it must have been an extremely difficult pill to swallow.

                      John's behavior up to this point had been a bit on the edge and he went over the edge eventually. I would dearly love to conduct an interview with him to get his feelings on these equipment issues. John McEnroe also was cutting edge in his cultural tastes with a definite rebellious edge. The times were not quickly in the rearview and even now hopefully there would be those that remember those days. Afterall…if you don't know your history you are doomed to repeat it…or something to that effect. Just look where we are today. Know what I mean?

                      So JeffMac…you have had a jolly time ridiculing me and what I have written. I hope that makes you feel "right" somehow. I have never used the words "right" or "wrong" in our discussion. I am somehow certain that you thought it was all fun and games but you are really not all that provocative…you are downright offensive. I thought that in your first article when you supposedly stalking Rod Laver on some late night flight way up in the sky and wouldn't let him be when it touched down.

                      This latest article is titled "Pathological Losers". It's an interesting title. You have spent a lot of words detailing and insinuating…drawing false conclusion right and left about me as well as John McEnroe. You must expect to be challenged if you put your writing out there in public. There is what you call credibility. Of course I'm a loser…anybody can see that. I've been married twice and divorced 14 or 15 times. I can't remember. I don't hide it. I put it out there for anybody to criticize. I don't even use the words "agree" or "disagree". I never say that I am "right" and you are "wrong". We both know that you are there and I am here so one of us must be in the wrong spot.

                      But I don't have a single self-help book in my library. I even checked. Unless you can somehow count the Carlos Castanedas series self help. No…recently I reread "The Razor's Edge" and "Of Human Bondage" by Somerset Maughm. Two beautiful reads that really gave me some insight into the human condition. They touch on how pathetic we are by nature while leaving some hope that somehow we can evolve. Now I am reading "The Adolescent" by Fyodor Dostoyevsky…an appropriate title since we are talking about an adolescent who quite possibly never grew up…and why would I or anyone else hold it against him? John McEnroe may be a sort of Dostoyevsky-esque character. He is that large in the scheme of tennis at least. Why the ridiculing attitude?

                      Comment


                      • #86
                        bottle...You Can't Seriously...

                        ...expect anyone to understand this wildly idiosyncratic stream of consciousness that even has God shaking his head in consternation ...but I'm trying because I want to win you over to my side so that we can possibly triangulate against budge someday...or perhaps against The Watcher, as well, if he should dare to reappear anytime this year. I'd say it's about 50-50. I've noticed that he averages about one post a year. Too much time sitting Za-Zen, down in Tijuana, I guess.

                        I still want him to tell me what the "mental game" is...or isn't. He's chicken poop!

                        But let's get back to your current infatuation with Don budge Quixote, that champion of the classic game and all the old timers with their wood racquets a.k.a. those pushers in long pants.

                        To Hell with Rosewall!!

                        The issue isn't whether it's a better brand of the game--it might be. In fact, I would say that it probably is. But who cares? We've moved on to the 21st Century.

                        Except for budge, of course. Who wrote that song, "Living in the Past?" Jethro Tull? That's budge's theme song.

                        And yes, it's obvious that I dislike McEnroe only because of the similarity in our last names. (By the way, I didn't choose my user name for this site. It was given to me as an honorarium by my friends on the editorial board). That makes about as much sense as budge's ridiculous theory about the etiology of McEnroe's "endless war."

                        If budge and I were sitting together at breakfast at good 'ol Jack in the Box in Scottsdale I doubt that we would "get along" unless in some magical way, being face to face would somehow improve his attitude and personality. He says that I am "offensive."

                        He Can't Be Serious!!

                        Just to set the record straight it was budge--with your tacit support, I suspect--who launched that vicious, gratuitous attack upon me after the publication of the immortal Laver opus. He said the article was in the "bottom third of all articles on this site." He has no idea how much that hurt. I'm still in therapy trying to deal with the outrage and pain. Certainly, it is the cause of my writers block, and my erectile dysfunction.

                        I was lucky. The chemotherapy and the lobotomy were successful. I had just come back on to this site after being in treatment for about six years when budge id'd me as his next victim. And this is the greeting I received? And he says I'm "offensive?" Just like McEnroe he revels in verbal abuse and sadism. budge adores picking on the elderly and the chronically infirm every bit as much as McEnroe loves to act like a four year old with his panties all up in a bunch.

                        And then this master of the gratuitous F-bomb, this great arbiter of truth and justice, and right and wrong, was particularly incensed over the horrible treatment afforded one of his wood-era heroes. Yeah sure!! Actually, he was just jealous because I got to take a trip with Roddy-boo baby, and go out to coffee with my good friend, reminisce and talk some shop, and he didn't! And never will. So there!

                        And now bottle you have the audacity to mention that Bowery hack Waugh. What about my book? Have you ordered Two-Handed Tennis yet? If you send it to me with a C-note tucked inside the cover I would be happy to sign it for you. And I might even send it back.

                        bottle...do you have any idea how much fun it is to be a famous author? Do you, bottle? Everyday is like Christmas.

                        And now beer bottle, ol' boy, I anxiously await your next diatribe with gritted teeth. And "fear and trembling unto the death." In the meantime, I want you to try to rein in budge for me. I just don't know how much more of his acid hostility I can take.

                        Originally posted by bottle View Post
                        Hah, hah, no ending here. There's never an ending anywhere, and seldom a change either except for me, a merlot bottle instead of a beer bottle at 76 years of age and hopefully growing more childish every day.

                        If you and don_budge were sitting together at breakfast in Peterborough at The MacDowell Colony, JeffMac, just sitting there and waiting for the New Hampshire Primary to roll in, you'd be very surprised at how cordially well you and don_budge would get along.

                        It would be me, not don_budge, you would need to worry about, a very likely character conflict unless you knew how to play Edwin Arlington Robinson's version of cowboy pool and could run 40 points so as to flip the overhead chips across on their wire and put your name on a century's worth of achievement plaques.

                        Konrad, head of MacDowell: "That guy's not a composer. He's a pool player."

                        As for John McEnroe seated at the same table, he could not only play pool well but never have to say a word at breakfast since he could speak with his hands. There to write the sequel to YOU CANNOT BE SERIOUS.

                        The character conflict between you and me, JeffMac (your name by the way contains the explanation of your antipathy to McEnroe), based on my late life rejection of Hunter Thompson, Norman Mailer and Tom Wolfe, would resemble that between me and Alex Waugh.

                        That one however was based on a very different three-pronged foundation: 1) My study of Alex Waugh's eating habits regarding soft-boiled eggs and 2) I got the girl and 3) I was the only colonist Alex didn't invite to his party (but the girl told me about it later that night afterward).

                        Comment


                        • #87
                          Maybe You Should Have...

                          ...some self-help books in your library...I sense angst, anger, paranoia, bitterness and deep disillusionment emanating from your keyboard. I'm concerned about you budge...: I suggest you rent a funny movie and laugh it up...

                          Originally posted by don_budge View Post
                          I give you two quotes attributed to John McEnroe about the equipment in the game and this is how you answer. Obviously the man had his concerns. Stotty as well gives another view as to how the equipment was changing the landscape at the time. I can imagine that the tier 1 players were not pleased that the tier 2 players were encroaching on their territory.

                          Because of your personal feelings or bias you do not accept evidence that Mr. McEnroe's behavior could plausibly be explained in some other alternative rational terms than the accepted "label" you perpetuate the label.

                          In the summer of 1976 I traveled to New York City for the first time. When the New York skyline came into view I repeated a line from Stevie Wonders "Inner Visions"…"New York, just like I pictured it. Skyscrapers and everything". My friend and I were going on an adventure.

                          We were staying with this Jewish fellow named Jeff Wolfman in Queens. Jeff was a character…he was an aspiring comedian among other things. We went to "Catch a Rising Star" one night and he stepped out of the audience to perform…after a guy dressed up like the pope was doing pro-Hitler jokes. He was excitedly telling my friend and I about this kid from Queens who was going to be the "next Nastase, the next greatest tennis player in the world". He was talking about John McEnroe.

                          The next day after we arrived we went out to some club in the suburbs that was holding qualifying rounds for the U. S. Open. Seventeen year old McEnroe had somehow qualified and in the final round of qualifying he was to play Zan Guerry…a fine tennis player from Lookout Mountain, Tennessee. That year was the year that the Open was played on Har-Tru. Not McEnroe's best surface at that point but he was definitely no slouch on it either.

                          McEnroe and Guerry played a wonderful three set clay court match right down to the end of the match. The outcome was always in question as neither player was able to get control of it. My recollection was that the match was decided in a 9-point sudden death tie-breaker. In the third set in the deciding tie-breaker at 4-all McEnroe won the deciding point on a whisker placed passing shot. But Guerry somehow got an overrule on the ball and the point was replayed. This time Guerry won and he won the match.

                          During the entire three and a half hour match, the match was contested fairly and squarely without any trouble whatsoever. But with this extremely controversial ending McEnroe took his anger into the parking lot where we were sitting near our car. He was sort of kicking gravel and scowling…you can imagine his disappointment. He may have been crying…he was at least close to tears. I suppose that makes him a crybaby in your book. The book of tennis dysfunction. Instead of qualifying for the tournament of his dreams he was tossed out and was only a "pathological loser" for his efforts.

                          He looked at us and I said to him…"you got robbed, man". Maybe those words gave him just a tad of hope back in such a dark moment. I hope that they did. We certainly felt for him…my buddies and me.

                          In 1981 I retold this story to Patrick McEnroe who was 17 or 18 at the time in Louisville where I was traveling with young Aaron Krickstein at the 18 and under Clay Court nationals. Patrick smiled at my recollection and told me that his brother has spoken of that match. He smiled when I told him what I said to John afterwards.

                          John McEnroe had it in his noggin that one day he was going to be the greatest tennis player in the world someday. To climb a mountain so high in an individual sport there are going to be some issues…this is the "virtue" of being selfish. He took it upon himself to make that climb and when he got to the top he realized that the rules had suddenly been changed with regard to the equipment. He had to look at this as something a million times worse than that loss in 1977 at the U. S. Open qualifying. Suddenly the "authorities" were giving every Tom, Dick and Harry the benefit of equipment that could replace the 10,000 hours of toil he had done to get where he was for 229 dollars.

                          The great John McEnroe stood on top of the tennis world in 1984 when he decimated Ivan Lendl in the finals of the U. S. Open. I was there too. He was standing alone at the precipice where the classic game that he was brought up to play was being sold down the river by the "authorities" and he was expected to go along with it. I can easily empathize with him…I was with him every step of the way…it must have been an extremely difficult pill to swallow.

                          John's behavior up to this point had been a bit on the edge and he went over the edge eventually. I would dearly love to conduct an interview with him to get his feelings on these equipment issues. John McEnroe also was cutting edge in his cultural tastes with a definite rebellious edge. The times were not quickly in the rearview and even now hopefully there would be those that remember those days. Afterall…if you don't know your history you are doomed to repeat it…or something to that effect. Just look where we are today. Know what I mean?

                          So JeffMac…you have had a jolly time ridiculing me and what I have written. I hope that makes you feel "right" somehow. I have never used the words "right" or "wrong" in our discussion. I am somehow certain that you thought it was all fun and games but you are really not all that provocative…you are downright offensive. I thought that in your first article when you supposedly stalking Rod Laver on some late night flight way up in the sky and wouldn't let him be when it touched down.

                          This latest article is titled "Pathological Losers". It's an interesting title. You have spent a lot of words detailing and insinuating…drawing false conclusion right and left about me as well as John McEnroe. You must expect to be challenged if you put your writing out there in public. There is what you call credibility. Of course I'm a loser…anybody can see that. I've been married twice and divorced 14 or 15 times. I can't remember. I don't hide it. I put it out there for anybody to criticize. I don't even use the words "agree" or "disagree". I never say that I am "right" and you are "wrong". We both know that you are there and I am here so one of us must be in the wrong spot.

                          But I don't have a single self-help book in my library. I even checked. Unless you can somehow count the Carlos Castanedas series self help. No…recently I reread "The Razor's Edge" and "Of Human Bondage" by Somerset Maughm. Two beautiful reads that really gave me some insight into the human condition. They touch on how pathetic we are by nature while leaving some hope that somehow we can evolve. Now I am reading "The Adolescent" by Fyodor Dostoyevsky…an appropriate title since we are talking about an adolescent who quite possibly never grew up…and why would I or anyone else hold it against him? John McEnroe may be a sort of Dostoyevsky-esque character. He is that large in the scheme of tennis at least. Why the ridiculing attitude?

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                          • #88
                            Hey Phil...

                            Enjoyed watching McEnroe behave like Atilla the Hun because he feared the advent of "big graphite." Makes sense to me...lol


                            Originally posted by gzhpcu View Post
                            Gosh, JeffMac,

                            What's your beef with McEnroe?

                            Sure, maybe he was a bit "temperamental"... (in Sweden too of all places...)

                            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C8Nyc9jzSDg

                            I mean we need to be tolerant don't we? Not like the narrow-minded Aussies...

                            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_2rjocv-Jo

                            Comment


                            • #89
                              The Dolly Llama Asks a Favor of...Don Quixote budge...

                              ...when you meet Borg, could you act as my agent and attempt to set up a meeting between me and Borg? I would like to do a gonzo interview of him. The first question I'll ask is: It has been suggested by no less an authority as Don Quixote budge--your neighbor--that you retired at age 26 primarily because you feared the coming onslaught of "big graphite," as well as the invasion of the body snatchers. True or False? Thanks.

                              QUOTE=don_budge;37449]"In Sweden of all places…". What's that supposed to mean Saint Phil? John McEnroe was playing a Swede when he was disqualified at the Australian Open too. Is there some hidden meaning there too? You are a sniper Phil. Nothing tangible to add…99 times out of 100. Just little snippets. And that's ok…it's just the way that you are…the way you roll. Pathological loser…it's your style and that's great. I like it so much there isn't any point in responding to any of your shots disguised as posts…I like to just sit back and admire or whatever.



                              So here's one for you Saint Phil and Dolly Llama JeffMac and all of the other "sensitive and tolerant" readers on the forum…why it's Tony Montana of Scarface fame. I love this scene. He's telling the hoity toity, posh and ritzy crowd in a swank Miami feeding trough what the real deal is. Pathetic losers or Pathological losers…what's the difference? You (we) are all a bunch of losers…except for the occasional saint. You know who you are. Nobody here gets out alive.

                              Al Pacino going Montana. Going McEnroe. Going Gonzo!

                              "What are you looking at? You're all a bunch of fucking assholes. You know why? Because you don't have the guts to be what you want to be. You need people like me…you need people like me so you can point your fucking fingers and say that's the bad guy. So…what does that make you? Good? You're not good…you just know how to hide. How to lie. Me…I don't have that problem. Me…I always tell the truth. Even when I lie.

                              So say good night to the bad guy. C'mon. It's that last time you're going to see a bad guy like this…let me tell you. Make way for the bad guy. There's a bad guy coming through. You'd better get out of his way."

                              I would have shook his hand, looked him square in the eye and said, "Good night Mr. Montana. I hope that you are feeling better tomorrow." I'm not scared of bad guys…they have their bad days too. Just like you and I…they put their pants on one leg at a time.[/QUOTE]

                              Comment


                              • #90
                                Beginning to get really funny, I must admit, but everybody needs to try to be sadder. Deep sadness, not effervescence, is the secret to Don Quixote's success.
                                Last edited by bottle; 02-11-2016, 04:12 AM.

                                Comment

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