Jack Sock forehand

[stroke]

http://www.tennisunleashed.net/ultimate-forehand-lag-jack-sock/

This is a pretty good evaluation of the Jack Sock forehand. John is planning on putting It up on the Interactive Forum, but this is a pretty good starting point on what Jack is doing.

[johnyandell]

Not bad. More questions than answers but something.

[stroke]

The nicest part to me was showing the hand action only next to Roger. It looked like his hand path to contact was as short as Roger. I would like to get 10splayer's analysis on Sock fh.

[stotty]

Sock it to 'em Jack...!

The video is a nice find.

I find Sock's forehand to be more of an anomaly. I am not sure how many players can get away with this kind of complex transition point from backswing to forward swing.

I have seen Jack play only a couple of times so can only speak from limited experience, but I found his forehand far less secure than Nadal's. His return of serve was far weaker for sure. He was quick round the court but made some mistakes in terms of which balls he could effectively run round; sometimes he left himself disadvantaged by doing this. Nadal is precision perfect about what he can run around a what he cannot...simply the best ever at doing it in my view.

He does seem to get a lot of power with not much rotation...considerably less than someone like Murray for example. That's impressive; must be one of the benefits of his lag.

I can see why people are taken by Jack's forehand, but from what I have seen I not a great fan. Not that I don't think it's a great shot in some ways (I like it on dead balls and when he has time)...just less impressive in others. I will study his forehand a little a more and watch some old matches on YouTube. I will post again once I have digested a bit more.

[klacr]

The nicest part to me was showing the hand action only next to Roger. I looked like his hand path to contact was as short as Roger. I would like to get 10splayer's analysis on Sock fh.

The side by side hand movement of Sock vs. Federer is excellent. It makes you appreciate Federer even more and speaks volumes on simplicity, efficiency and ease of replicating.

The Sock forehand makes my arm hurt just watching it. But I'm not saying it is a bad forehand. As teachers and coaches, we want to do what's best for our students and show them proper models while simultaneously letting their own personal style and flair shine through. This is Jack Sock's. Could we teach this identical motion to every student? No way. But can we take some of the positive technical cues and hone it into a player for future development. Absolutely. This forehand may be an anomaly, but it's one that Jack has made work to get to the level he is. Kudos to him for that.

Kyle LaCroix USPTA
Boca Raton

[bottle]

The speaker at end of the video talks about the shortcomings or imagined shortcomings of the longer and more convoluted racket path (of Jack Sock). Near the beginning, the same speaker explains that Jack separates hands earlier than most players, thus in my view getting racket back sooner to accomplish more shenanigans. What I take away as useful to me is that early separation buys time for one to fool around. But whether the bought time equals the time spent on the shenanigans I doubt. Maybe these two times would be equal if one started when one was very young to establish the special pattern along with significant layers of myelin to sheathe the given pattern when one was very young, thus building up speed through the enclosed neuronal pathway. Otherwise, I'd suggest, stay away from this particular stroke. Actually, though, Roger's forehand is quite convoluted too, especially what happens near top of his backswing. But both did start with one unchanging pattern, I guess, while quite young.

[lobndropshot]

The speaker at end of the video talks about the shortcomings of the longer and more convoluted racket path (of Jack Sock). Near the beginning, the same speaker explains that Jack separates hands earlier than most players, thus in my view getting racket back sooner to accomplish more shenanigans. What I take away as useful to me is that early separation buys time for one to fool around.

Like it!

[klacr]

The speaker at end of the video talks about the shortcomings or imagined shortcomings of the longer and more convoluted racket path (of Jack Sock). Near the beginning, the same speaker explains that Jack separates hands earlier than most players, thus in my view getting racket back sooner to accomplish more shenanigans. What I take away as useful to me is that early separation buys time for one to fool around. But whether the bought time equals the time spent on the shenanigans I doubt. Maybe these two times would be equal if one started when one was very young to establish the special pattern along with significant layers of myelin to sheathe the given pattern when one was very young, thus building up speed through the enclosed neuronal pathway. Otherwise, I'd suggest, stay away from this particular stroke. Actually, though, Roger's forehand is quite convoluted too, especially what happens near top of his backswing. But both did start with one unchanging pattern, I guess, while quite young.

Berdych separates his hands early, but it's a much more controlled swing. Not as wild as Sock. No Shenanigans needed.

Kyle LaCroix USPTA
Boca Raton

[stroke]

One thing that kind of jumps out at me technically on Jacks's fh is that heavy pronated start position of his. The guy talking about it on the video pointed out, and replicated that position, with the tip of the racquet pointed forward and below his hand. This is certainly different from the Gordon/Macci start position model that has the tip on the racquet above the hand in the preparation position prior to the flip. Jack's position appears to give him more room for the flip or lag when he supinates/externally rotates his arm/shoulder.

[don_budge]

Sock it to 'em…Tigers! 1968 style!

The video is a nice find.

I find Sock's forehand to be more of an anomaly. I am not sure how many players can get away with this kind of complex transition point from backswing to forward swing.

I have seen Jack play only a couple of times so can only speak from limited experience, but I found his forehand far less secure than Nadal's. His return of serve was far weaker for sure. He was quick round the court but made some mistakes in terms of which balls he could effectively run round; sometimes he left himself disadvantaged by doing this. Nadal is precision perfect about what he can run around a what he cannot...simply the best ever at doing it in my view.

He does seem to get a lot of power with not much rotation...considerably less than someone like Murray for example. That's impressive; must be one of the benefits of his lag.

I can see why people are taken by Jack's forehand, but from what I have seen I not a great fan. Not that I don't think it's a great shot in some ways (I like it on dead balls and when he has time)...just less impressive in others. I will study his forehand a little a more and watch some old matches on YouTube. I will post again once I have digested a bit more.

Just remember it's simpler to reproduce what you did going back when you go forwards. Statistically speaking. Sure…there are anomalies. There are flukes. Jack Sock's forehand is somewhat of a fluke. There is no way to train someone to do this. The jury is out on him and his flukish forehand. He didn't make a dent in Tomas Berdych when it counted most…in the finals. What is power? Answer…control. Did Jack lose a tad control when it counted most?

But speaking of "Sock it to 'em"…does anybody other than me remember the 1968 World Series between the Detroit Tigers and the Saint Louis Cardinals? Sock it to 'em Tigers was the mantra of the summer. The Tigers relentlessly would come storming back in the late innings to steal ballgames and to eventually win the pennant and the World Series. I was fourteen years old and sitting in the upper deck in right field for the fifth game. These were my heroes!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VYv0FtTPhco

What a series and what a host of personalities. A long list of who's who in baseball. Don't forget that 1968 was a watershed year for tennis also…it was the year the game went open to the professionals to play in the Grand Slam events. It was the year that I began to play tennis myself.

It was a big year for Detroiters. The year before was the year of the 1967 race riots. They began one day when my father and I were coincidentally at Tiger Stadium watching a double header against the California Angels. When we got out of the stadium we were looking at the National Guard on our way home…making our way in the old Volkswagon Beetle my father drove. What a basic car that was. Detroit was never the same after 1967. Neither was America for that matter.

But back to Sock's forehand. Still waiting on 10splayer to make a comment as stroke has summoned him.

[don_budge]

Trying to Keep my Mouth Shut…it ain't easy

http://www.tennisunleashed.net/ultim...lag-jack-sock/

This is a pretty good evaluation of the Jack Sock forehand. John is planning on putting It up on the Interactive Forum, but this is a pretty good starting point on what Jack is doing.

Went to a tennis trainer's meeting in Falköping, Sweden tonight. I try to keep my mouth shut. It feels like I am light years ahead and what I am watching is in slow motion.

A man gave a presentation on technique. He was about my age and he spoke very good Swedish of which I find it very hard to understand. But I get the gist of it. He was comparing different eras I guess and what do you think he used for an example. He had some highlights from the 1989 U. S. Open final between Mats Wilander and Ivan Lendl. I presented this match to the forum not so long ago.

Another video he used was this same video by jasonfrausto that stroke presented here on the forum. The Jack Sock forehand.

One guy asked the fellow what a trainer needed most of all to be a good trainer. The fellow went off on a tangent about inspiration…which is all well and good. But my answer is somewhat different and this little meeting couldn't have illustrated my response any better. If you want to be a good tennis coach…you had better be a student of the game. You gotta know your stuff forwards and backwards and that is including the history…of the whole shebang.

[eaglesburg]

What if someone went straight to the end of Sock's backswing without the extra motion? Would it still be considered technically unsound?

[stotty]

Strange how Sock releases his left hand off the racket so early but then "almost" looks like he's going to grab hold of it a again just a split second later.

I see Roger's hand stays in place through the swing while Socks looks to coil up his wrist. Roger's forehand just looks better to me.

I watched a match of Sock's against Monfils on YouTube. He certainly hits some crackers but he doesn't control rallies on his forehand like Nadal does. Once Nadal gets hold of a rally on his forehand he's like a boa constrictor....

But the interesting thing to me is that one of the critical positions in ATP forehand in missing...or should I say reversed...with the tip of the racket pointing down and not above the hitting hand. This is what I meant by an anomaly. In today's game this is somewhat unusual. Now, biomechanically I cannot tell you the impact of that...whether there is any gain or loss. I know a few guys that might, though...

[jasonfrausto]

Sock leaving the hand on through the unit turn in 2011 CLICK HERE

And here against Simon in 2011 CLICK HERE

2010 US Open Junior Final footage CLICK HERE

There's also footage of him on YouTube pre-2010 with the traditional hand on the throat position through the unit turn. Taking it off early is something he more than likely developed in the years after which allows for the more extreme position with the tip even/below and in front of the hand. I'm sure he could reach his new extreme position by leaving the hand on, but it's probably more natural for him to take it off early.

Stay tuned...more to come

-Jason Frausto

[stroke]

Thanks for posting Jason. It is hard to say anyone's forehand is the weapon of Nadals, a guy who won 9 of 10 French Opens until last year, with his forehand being the main reason. Of late though, watching Sock matches vs two players in particular, Dimitrov and Gasquet, Sock's forehand had those 2 shaking their head like I have never seen before, even vs Nadal.