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2015 Shanghai Rolex Masters…ATP 1000…Shanghai, China

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  • #16
    I watched the Tomic/Djokovic match. The 1st set was certainly the best anyone played vs Novak this week. Tomic had his chances in the tiebreak but Novak was really bearing down(as he had been doing all year) and simply won the points he had to. I think db nailed it, Tomic needs to work on his fitness and mental fortitude(for the entire match, not some of it). If he were to take care of these 2 issues, he looks like he has the game to me. I really felt like Novak's significant movement advantage over Tomic was on display. Tomic's earlier match win in this tournament over Gasquet was a very high quality 3 set match and also to me really showed what Tomic is capable of. He really looks comfortable and so efficient hitting the ball off both sides.

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by don_budge View Post
      Greg Rusedski after the routine perfunctory drubbing of Jo-Wilfried Tsonga by Novak Djokovic had a couple of things to say about the match. First he played homage to the incredible run and performance of the "Meteoric" Djokovic. But then he wasn't overly impressed with the game plan of Tsonga and he backed it up with some replays of points.

      Tsonga is playing right into Djokovic's comfort zone by staying back and playing the same backcourt game Djokovic would prefer to play. He reemphasized that this going to spell trouble for anyone in the game today as Djokovic has demonstrated that he is better at this than anybody.

      To further demonstrate his point he used Roger Federer as the "Living Proof". Federer…said Rusedski…is the only player that is capable of taking Djokovic out of his comfort zone by attacking him. That being said we must take into consideration the age differential between the two which is everything when you are trying to be on the attack…and sustain it. That kind of pressure takes not only intestinal fortitude…it also is very demanding physically. Much more demanding than the backcourt game being played today…so much for the "physicality".

      Bernard Tomic does play that tactical game a bit. He doesn't have the traditional tactics of Australians of years gone by down pat so he is going to struggle against Djokovic in the course of a match. Case in point…he did put up a good fight in the first set but he couldn't sustain it. He may be lacking in the kind of fitness not to mention the mental toughness that it takes to pull this off. But this was exactly in keeping with what Rusedski was pointing out…the obvious. If you want to take down Djokovic you have to take him out of his game…once he establishes the rhythm and starts dictating it's all but over.

      The problem is that these guys are all playing the same game. There is no plan B. Federer has demonstrated that this tactic can work…he has demonstrated this in spite of his being "over the hill" somewhat. The young lions and young turks certainly could pull it off…but they are not trained in this manner. Remember how I said once or twice that the coaching had been hijacked.

      Good call…klacr.
      Bingo!

      One-dimensional baseline play is great...if you are better than everybody else in the world at it. And that is Djokovic. For everyone else, you need to find ways to disrupt, annoy and keep that #1 player off balance. Of course, you can't do that if you don't have the tools.

      Djokovic has lost 5 matches all year. 3 of those 5 were to players who predominantly served and volleyed. Federer (Dubai, Cincinnati) and Karlovic (Doha). The other two losses came from baseliners who accepted the situation and made a point to become more attacking, aggressive and finish points at net if needed (Wawrinka-Roland Garros and Murray in Canada).

      Players must push the envelope and develop their game beyond the status quo baseline movement. If not, Djokovic will rule the roost for more years to come. Embrace the net. Serve and volley revolution.
      But I'm slightly bias.

      How much money do I have to donate to Djokovic's charitable fund to play him in one set?

      Kyle LaCroix USPTA
      Boca Raton

      Comment


      • #18
        The Hallmark of Great Champions…Consistency

        Originally posted by stroke View Post
        I watched the Tomic/Djokovic match. The 1st set was certainly the best anyone played vs Novak this week. Tomic had his chances in the tiebreak but Novak was really bearing down(as he had been doing all year) and simply won the points he had to. I think db nailed it, Tomic needs to work on his fitness and mental fortitude(for the entire match, not some of it). If he were to take care of these 2 issues, he looks like he has the game to me. I really felt like Novak's significant movement advantage over Tomic was on display. Tomic's earlier match win in this tournament over Gasquet was a very high quality 3 set match and also to me really showed what Tomic is capable of. He really looks comfortable and so efficient hitting the ball off both sides.
        Bernard Tomic is currently ranked at #18 in the world among professional tennis players. This is his highest ranking to date. He is only 22 years old and already has a bit of history not to mention reputation. His tempestuous nature rivals his teenage country man Nick Kyrgios but Tomic just may be leaving some of his youthful folly or rebelliousness behind him. I am unsure of his real history…his origins and how he got to where he was but let's just assume it wasn't a conventional story.

        Tomic has definitely given me the impression at times that he is a force to be reckoned with. The factor that separates these type of talents is the hallmark of great tennis players…in a word "consistency". He has yet to demonstrate this kind of resilience and steadiness over time. Somehow as of late he is showing signs of maturity and the tennis world surely could use a colourful character to challenge some of the "same old same old".

        For him to challenge for a Grand Slam title he is going to have to further demonstrate what he has failed to do so far…and that is the very two things that you mention. His physical conditioning and his mental toughness over the long hall. The is quite a wide chasm between challenging Novak Djokovic for a set and winning seven best of five set matches over two weeks.

        He needs a transfusion of the old school Aussie magic. Get him under the wing of the old masters and perhaps sign him up for doubles with Lleyton Hewitt and maybe he will get some of that backbone by osmosis. He's showing signs…but he really needs to go on some kind of tear.

        Speaking of going on a tear…the "Meteoric" Djokovic has quietly positioned himself to posting one of the best years ever in terms of win-loss records. There might be a bit of asterisk on those numbers considering that the talent pool is quite watered down. There doesn't seem to be anyone outside of Roger Federer that can even bother him. In any case he best exemplifies what it takes to be a great champion…consistency. A very, very high level of consistency.
        don_budge
        Performance Analysthttps://www.tennisplayer.net/bulleti...ilies/cool.png

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        • #19
          Pushing the Envelope…The Coach's Responsibility

          Originally posted by klacr View Post
          Players must push the envelope and develop their game beyond the status quo baseline movement. If not, Djokovic will rule the roost for more years to come. Embrace the net. Serve and volley revolution.
          But I'm slightly bias.

          Kyle LaCroix USPTA
          Boca Raton
          Due to tremendous pressure to produce results in the junior game coaches have submitted to a paradigm that may not be in the interests of tennis in general. The current paradigm produces the status quo baseline game.

          Players such as Pete Sampras who transitioned from the junior game to the men's game had to stomach a period of sacrifice in order to transcend the herd. When players are old enough to start swinging it with one hand they need to be weaned and started on the path forwards…to the net.

          It's plain and simple. The ageing King, Roger Federer, has shown us what is possible if you dare to fly with eagles. The problem is that coaches are going to play it safe too and nobody is willing to talk about the shortcomings of the game because of the political ramifications. Afterall…a less than confident coach will constantly be asking himself...what if I am wrong?

          Let's face it…currently there is so much thought and pressure to produce professionals when the old paradigm used to be loosely fit around a family activity type of paradigm. Then if someone showed some promise the training was promoted to the appropriate level. But to go on training everyone as a potential professional is unrealistic and there is a lot of resulting failure…particularly in the professional game where it is glaring.

          There is a whole herd of players that if they had been trained to play with one hand backhands, perfect service motions that can carry them to the net, all-court tactics and forwards movement this would have been a completely different game. Tomas Berdych is one player that comes to mind…if only, if only. But you can see what happens…they hit a wall. A wall that has no potential left in it. There is no way forwards…literally and figuratively. Potential is possible room for improvement but there is nothing to build upon in the current paradigm.

          Federer recognized a couple of things late in his career. Number one he realized that he was playing at a deficit with his equipment and then once he changed his equipment he realized that he still had a lot of unused potential that he had discarded from his skill sets. But he only had that potential because at the core of his development he had been trained as a all-court tennis player…right out of the book of you know who.
          Last edited by don_budge; 10-19-2015, 10:25 PM.
          don_budge
          Performance Analysthttps://www.tennisplayer.net/bulleti...ilies/cool.png

          Comment


          • #20
            Where are Roger's imitators...can we call a bluff on today's tennis?

            Originally posted by don_budge View Post
            Due to tremendous pressure to produce results in the junior game coaches have submitted to a paradigm that may not be in the interests of tennis in general. The current paradigm produces the status quo baseline game.

            It's plain and simple. The ageing King, Roger Federer, has shown us what is possible if you dare to fly with eagles. The problem is that coaches are going to play it safe too and nobody is willing to talk about the shortcomings of the game because of the political ramifications. Afterall…a less than confident coach will constantly be asking himself...what if I am wrong?

            There is a whole herd of players that if they had been trained to play with one hand backhands, perfect service motions that can carry them to the net, all-court tactics and forwards movement this would have been a completely different game....

            ....But he only had that potential because at the core of his development he had been trained as a all-court tennis player…right out of the book of you know who.
            It's hard to argue with what don_budge is saying, but something odd has happened that takes some explaining. Didn't you always strive to emulate the player you most admired of your era...or maybe several players of your era? Gonzales certainly did. Studying and poaching parts of others games' was something Gonzales was later to admit in one of his books.

            Given that Federer is the most popular player of his generation, and some would say the most popular player ever, why does he only have one emulator...why not droves? Surely, coaches cannot override the impulse of children to do this. And don't forget Federer's biggest fans are often the coaches themselves.

            Could it be that Federer is the only one that can do what he does, and that it takes a player as gifted as him to swim upstream against modern"engineering"? Or can we call a bluff on the modern game and develop players with all round games and the ability to volley well enough to challenge a player like Djokovic?
            Stotty

            Comment


            • #21
              "There should only be one Roger Federer."-- Roger Federer

              But I don't believe him when it comes to net and transition game and all of his strokes except for his forehand.

              Except for his forehand? Bottle, are you mad? Well, if one can master the subtle change of racket alignment at the top of his backswing, then I suppose that one can have fun imitating Roger's forehand.

              More likely, one will develop a stroke inferior to one's potential, the same phenomenon attributed by some tennis wag to all of the U.K. as everybody tried to imitate the ping-pong strokes of Fred Perry.

              Roger is the great model for everything else in tennis, but in the hands of another, his forehand is slow in production. Roger must have developed great myelin when he was little so that something inherently slow became lightning fast.

              I tell the story of Jonas Bjorkman once again, a man who said that as an exercise he imitated Roger's forehand in every jot and tittle with everything falling into place except for result.

              That is my low level experience too. Much better to lead with the elbow like Djokovic, Blake or Ivan Lendl but get it going from beginning of the unit turn. Then, because elbow is dynamically cocked, you can spring the racket toward rear fence and join everything together for a solid whirl within an overall very fast yet complete stroke.

              If this combined with a three beat square dance square stance inchworm sounds like a flat shot, it is, but it can carry a lot of spin along with its pace. Later, one can fiddle with mondo and footwork and Alexander Ragtime (use outside leg to puff out the chest!) to develop pure and heavy topspin for its own sake.
              Last edited by bottle; 10-20-2015, 05:05 AM.

              Comment


              • #22
                Perspective...

                Originally posted by licensedcoach View Post
                It's hard to argue with what don_budge is saying, but something odd has happened that takes some explaining. Didn't you always strive to emulate the player you most admired of your era...or maybe several players of your era? Gonzales certainly did. Studying and poaching parts of others games' was something Gonzales was later to admit in one of his books.

                Given that Federer is the most popular player of his generation, and some would say the most popular player ever, why does he only have one emulator...why not droves? Surely, coaches cannot override the impulse of children to do this. And don't forget Federer's biggest fans are often the coaches themselves.

                Could it be that Federer is the only one that can do what he does, and that it takes a player as gifted as him to swim upstream against modern"engineering"? Or can we call a bluff on the modern game and develop players with all round games and the ability to volley well enough to challenge a player like Djokovic?
                It's pretty hard to put the conundrum of the modern tennis game into perspective. So much has changed. There is very little to draw upon in terms of tradition…which is very sad. Remember my "Thoughts about Tennis Tradition" thread. This was my gist and always has been.

                The problem now is many pronged and in reality there is no way back as many posters have politely and not so politely reminded me in the past. It's like the technology age in our lives…it is here to stay. Until the end…of everything.

                Players no longer have anyone to model themselves after…save one ancient hero. Coaches no longer teach the game as it was meant to be played. I was castigated by my partner here in Sweden for having the audacity to teach the one hand backhand. The club actually called in the regional leader to arbitrate our differences…my partner practically lost his mind in discussing our differences. It was pretty amusing though…I asked the two Swedes which hand supplied the power for the two hand backhand and they couldn't come to an agreement with that one either. This is the weakness of the current paradigm where one game plan fits all. Accreditation and certification are actually weak points whereas some will argue that the more pieces of paper you have gives you more credibility.

                The tennis coaching paradigm used to be more or less on a community basis where a person or persons would distinguish themselves as the leaders in the sport and they more or less commandeered their programs. Chances are if the community was large enough there were competing programs…a healthy condition promoting evolution. Since each program was more or less a tradition based and family oriented endeavor players tended to stay loyal to the program…even after they had graduated from it. The programs were largely based on legacies. Elders passing it forwards. It's hard to compare that to "Image is Everything"…which is the era ushered in by the Nick and Andre Show.

                Sure there were many models to choose from. You had your local heroes and your coach to look up to. In my case there was for instance a whole spectrum of left handed players to observe and study…John McEnroe, Rod Laver, Guillermo Vilas, Manuelo Orantes, Jimmy Connors to name a few. Favorite right handers included Richard Gonzales, Don Budge, Ilie Nastase, John Newcombe, Arthur Ashe, Stan Smith and the like. The list went on and on…you get the picture. Endless variety and interpretation of the game. What have you got today? Your point is worth noting.

                Things change…that is for certain. The problem is in the last hundred years or so man has taken over the change. The resulting engineering will never compare with the natural evolution that traditionally governed the change in society and in man. We are in uncharted waters…beware.
                Last edited by don_budge; 10-21-2015, 12:28 AM. Reason: for clarity's sake...
                don_budge
                Performance Analysthttps://www.tennisplayer.net/bulleti...ilies/cool.png

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by don_budge View Post
                  It's pretty hard to put the conundrum of the modern tennis game into perspective. So much has changed. There is very little to draw upon in terms of tradition…which is very sad. Remember my "Thoughts about Tennis Tradition" thread. This was my gist and always has been.

                  The problem now is many pronged and in reality there is no way back as many posters have politely and not so politely reminded me in the past. It's like the technology age in our lives…it is here to stay. Until the end…of everything.

                  Players no longer have anyone to model themselves after…save one ancient hero. Coaches no longer teach the game as it was meant to be played. I was castigated by my partner here in Sweden for having the audacity to teach the one hand backhand. The club actually called in the regional leader to arbitrate our differences…my partner practically lost his mind in discussing our differences. It was pretty amusing though…I asked the two Swedes which hand supplied the power for the two hand backhand and they couldn't come to an agreement with that one either. This is the weakness of the current paradigm where one game plan fits all. Accreditation and certification are actually weak points whereas some will argue that the more pieces of paper you have gives you more credibility.

                  The tennis coaching paradigm used to be more or less on a community basis where a person or persons would distinguish themselves as the leaders in the sport and they more or less commandeered their programs. Chances are if the community was large enough there were competing programs…a healthy condition promoting evolution. Since each program was more or less a tradition based and family oriented endeavor players tended to stay loyal to the program…even after they had graduated from it. The programs were largely based on legacies. Elders passing it forwards. It's hard to compare that to "Image is Everything"…which is the era ushered in by the Nick and Andre Show.

                  Sure there were many models to choose from. You had your local heroes and your coach to look up to. In my case there was for instance a whole spectrum of left handed players to observe and study…John McEnroe, Rod Laver, Guillermo Vilas, Manuelo Orantes, Jimmy Connors to name a few. Favorite right handers included Richard Gonzales, Don Budge, Ilie Nastase, John Newcombe, Arthur Ashe, Stan Smith and the like. The list went on and on…you get the picture. Endless variety and interpretation of the game. What have you got today? Your point is worth noting.

                  Things change…that is for certain. The problem is in the last hundred years or so man has taken over the change. The resulting engineering will never compare with the natural evolution that traditionally governed the change in society and in man. We are in uncharted waters…beware.
                  The truth.

                  But we all know the factors and negatives by now. The question is...What is the solution?

                  Kyle LaCroix USPTA
                  Boca Raton

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by klacr View Post
                    The truth.

                    But we all know the factors and negatives by now. The question is...What is the solution?

                    Kyle LaCroix USPTA
                    Boca Raton
                    Bring back wooden rackets and grass courts...

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by gzhpcu View Post
                      Bring back wooden rackets and grass courts...
                      Yes Phil. When I become commissioner.
                      Until then, it's gonna take a concerted effort from all teachers and coaches to remember traditions, teach all strokes and styles, and plan ahead about the future and where this game can go. It is a bit harder to do than your prototypical "racquet back, bend your knees, that'll be 65 dollars please" types of lessons that I see all too often that always kill a part of my soul.

                      Tennis teachers must take a more active role in the development of sound players, but also happy players. I find those two things go hand in hand.

                      Kyle LaCroix USPTA
                      Boca Raton

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Modern Day Problems…have no viable solutions

                        Originally posted by klacr View Post
                        The truth.

                        But we all know the factors and negatives by now. The question is...What is the solution?

                        Kyle LaCroix USPTA
                        Boca Raton

                        Originally posted by don_budge View Post

                        The problem now is many pronged and in reality there is no way back as many posters have politely and not so politely reminded me in the past. It's like the technology age in our lives…it is here to stay. Until the end…of everything.
                        Being the realist that I am…and always have been. I regret to inform you that the normal problem solving method cannot be applied any longer.

                        Normally one must first acknowledge that there is a problem. This is no longer possible for many as they lack the perspective to realize there is a problem. But after one acknowledges a problem one must understand the problem and this also has become increasingly difficult because of all of the obfuscation. Finally after acknowledgement and understanding you arrive at the problem solving stage.

                        Personally I have thought long and hard. I have written nearly 3,000 posts on this website and many have dealt with these issues. At this point and time I have come to the realization that as with many other modern day problems…this problem is too complex and too far gone to have any viable solution.
                        don_budge
                        Performance Analysthttps://www.tennisplayer.net/bulleti...ilies/cool.png

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by don_budge View Post
                          Being the realist that I am…and always have been. I regret to inform you that the normal problem solving method cannot be applied any longer.

                          Normally one must first acknowledge that there is a problem. This is no longer possible for many as they lack the perspective to realize there is a problem. But after one acknowledges a problem one must understand the problem and this also has become increasingly difficult because of all of the obfuscation. Finally after acknowledgement and understanding you arrive at the problem solving stage.

                          Personally I have thought long and hard. I have written nearly 3,000 posts on this website and many have dealt with these issues. At this point and time I have come to the realization that as with many other modern day problems…this problem is too complex and too far gone to have any viable solution.
                          So how can we as players adapt and embrace it and make the best out of a bad situation. Giving up is not an option.

                          Kyle LaCroix USPTA
                          Boca Raton

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Adapt and Embrace…and the Bloody Purge

                            Originally posted by klacr View Post
                            So how can we as players adapt and embrace it and make the best out of a bad situation. Giving up is not an option.

                            Kyle LaCroix USPTA
                            Boca Raton
                            Yes…adapt and embrace. But that is exactly what we are doing here Kyle. We talk freely amongst each other without censoring each others point of view or opinions. We embrace the other side's right to express. We insist on our right "to be". We give no quarter and we ask none in return.

                            I am true to myself…and the "true" game of tennis. I am true to my students and it is on my honour that I pass the game of tennis forwards to the next generation.

                            Short of a revolution or a bloody purge of the morons that are running the show…we keep the dream alive.
                            Last edited by don_budge; 10-23-2015, 10:35 PM. Reason: for clarity's sake...
                            don_budge
                            Performance Analysthttps://www.tennisplayer.net/bulleti...ilies/cool.png

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Yes Sir

                              Originally posted by don_budge View Post
                              Yes…adapt and embrace. But that is exactly what we are doing here Kyle. We talk freely amongst each other without censoring each others point of view or opinions. We embrace the other side's right to express. We insist on our right "to be". We give no quarter and we ask none in return.

                              I am true to myself…and the "true" game of tennis. I am true to my students and it is on my honour that I pass the game of tennis forwards to the next generation.

                              Short of a revolution or a bloody purge of the morons that are running the show…we keep the dream alive.
                              kudos to you for keeping the tradition alive and well for your students. Sadly, it is that respect and understanding for the game and all-court tennis from coaches that is the only beacon of hope. Keep it up. Sure, embrace and adapt, but don't forget where we came from and how we got there.

                              Kyle LaCroix USPTA
                              Boca Raton

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Tennis Metaphoring Life...

                                Originally posted by klacr View Post
                                Keep it up. Sure, embrace and adapt, but don't forget where we came from and how we got there.

                                Kyle LaCroix USPTA
                                Boca Raton
                                Kyle…you are a young man with a high degree of ability to discern. That is a rare combination these days. The ability to discern is disappearing from the nature of mankind. It used to be second nature. Reliance upon technological devices has replaced man's engagement with nature and the nature of things. Instinct has become relegated to the garbage bin.

                                The nature of man is to forget. Nobody remembers now. It is only me that stands in the way of total obfuscation of the truth with regards to the game. If I hadn't been continually harping on things like the size of racquets, the engineering of court surfaces and the lack and disregard for tradition we wouldn't be having this conversation in front of the 15 or 20 people that are privy to it.

                                People have forgotten how we got here…as if we ever knew. But they have forgotten where we have been in as short a time as a hundred years ago. In fact they not only have forgotten but they look upon the past with disdain…with an attitude of superiority. As if past generations were somehow inferior and less enlightened.

                                The fact of the matter is that man has ceased to evolve in most cases…a majority of the herd is in fact heading over the cliff trying to decide whether or not to vote for Hillary Clinton. Fake news and fake issues are all that the present human cranium is fit to ponder. They have been led down a primrose path. Self destruction and the destruction of everything it touches.

                                Once again…tennis metaphoring life. The tennis world wholly converted in believing that somehow it has evolved when in fact it has been artificially engineered. It's almost a virtual world. Engineered into believing that somehow the athletes today are somehow superior to those of yesteryear. But one only has to "remember" that those tennis players of yesteryear were playing with 65" inche's of wood and these faux heroes of today are playing with 100" inche's of graphite or other space age materials.

                                I can hear the chorus singing about progress when in fact it is not. It is a step backwards and what we are witnessing in tennis…as well in life…is a devolution of the species. It is somehow getting weaker in its attempts to adapt. Keep this in mind…going forwards. The illusion is that somehow things get better with technology…when in fact one must always keep in mind that as bottle quoted one fine sunny day…with every invention comes a curse. When you think of the magnitude of the current invention…information technology…then you can only imagine the magnitude of the curse.

                                I fought the invention of the bigger racquets like some crazed don_quixote coming out of the woods after years of isolation. My Jack Kramer Pro Staff against the humongous windmills of Prince racquetdom. People thought I was "unhinged" when in fact I was right. My protest was in vain…"they are killing the art in the sport!!!"

                                Never forget…and never surrender. Never surrender what you owe to yourself. The truth…always be true to yourself. That way…you sleep better at night.
                                don_budge
                                Performance Analysthttps://www.tennisplayer.net/bulleti...ilies/cool.png

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