Peter Chen Serve

[klacr]

Here is something that is most fascinating. It occurs in the first 17 clicks of the video…

http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/strokearchive/pro_men/rogerfederer/rogerfederer_serve/rogerfederer_1st_serve/rogerfederer_1st_serve.html?Federer1stSDeuceCourtLevelSide2.mov

In the first row directly in line with Federer there is an older fellow with a safari hat on and he is lowering his newspaper into his satchel. In the second row there is a woman who is adjusting her sunglasses or something then she is lowering her hand from her face into her lap.

Both of their downward movements are in perfect synch with Federer initiating his motion. When they deliberately and naturally drop their hands at the exact same speed that Federer commences his service motion out of his setup position.

An eye for detail don_budge. Great teachers have that.

I think Peter has improved his serve from the initial videos he posted. Kudos to him for following the advice from this forum. serving problems are rhythm problems. You are improving.
pvchen, keep this up. There's a lot of info on this thread you have extracted from some great minds. Anything I could add that may help has already been mentioned in numerous ways.

My coaching advice. Pick two key points you learned...repetition, repetition, repetition. No need to do everything...just the right things. Then master it.

Kyle LaCroix USPTA
Boca Raton

[stotty]

Here is something that is most fascinating. It occurs in the first 17 clicks of the video…

http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/strokearchive/pro_men/rogerfederer/rogerfederer_serve/rogerfederer_1st_serve/rogerfederer_1st_serve.html?Federer1stSDeuceCourtLevelSide2.mov

In the first row directly in line with Federer there is an older fellow with a safari hat on and he is lowering his newspaper into his satchel. In the second row there is a woman who is adjusting her sunglasses or something then she is lowering her hand from her face into her lap.

Both of their downward movements are in perfect synch with Federer initiating his motion. When they deliberately and naturally drop their hands at the exact same speed that Federer commences his service motion out of his setup position.

Well spotted, don_budge. The man in the safari hat just manages to get his head back up in time to see the point start. He's a true tennis fan...doesn't want to miss a point.

"Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans." -- John Lennon

[don_budge]

The natural rhythm of the Service Motion...

serving problems are rhythm problems.
Kyle LaCroix USPTA
Boca Raton

"Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans." -- John Lennon

Initiating the backswing is the beginning of those problems…thanks for making that point about the rhythm and inherent problems. That is the whole point of pointing out the natural downward and descending motions in the background. Most backswings tend to be too quick as if the server is gearing up to "hit" something instead of swinging the racquet. Roger Federer holds onto his rhythm during the course of a match as well as anybody. Novak Djokovic does too…it is part of his invincibility.

The interesting thing about this "incident" involving the guy in the safari hat and the unsuspecting woman is the speed at which all three make this descending motion. This is precisely how the backswing should be initiated…what did I say…deliberately and naturally. If you can hold onto that sort of natural cadence and feel when it is time to apply the torque you are in business.

pvchen backswing may be just a tad too deliberate and needs to flow just a bit more naturally. Cue the roller coaster and the laws of gravity.

[stotty]

Initiating the backswing is the beginning of those problems…thanks for making that point about the rhythm and inherent problems. That is the whole point of pointing out the natural downward and descending motions in the background. Most backswings tend to be too quick as if the server is gearing up to "hit" something instead of swinging the racquet. Roger Federer holds onto his rhythm during the course of a match as well as anybody. Novak Djokovic does too…it is part of his invincibility.

The interesting thing about this "incident" involving the guy in the safari hat and the unsuspecting woman is the speed at which all three make this descending motion. This is precisely how the backswing should be initiated…what did I say…deliberately and naturally. If you can hold onto that sort of natural cadence and feel when it is time to apply the torque you are in business.

pvchen backswing may be just a tad too deliberate and needs to flow just a bit more naturally. Cue the roller coaster and the laws of gravity.

I think, pvchen, you have had some great feedback by don_budge in this thread. You really don't have too far to go from where you are now to develop your serve into something significantly better. I love don_budge's descriptive writings on the serve. It's so much better than reducing things down to technical positions. I think he conveys what good serve should "feel" like really well.

[10splayer]

I think, pvchen, you have had some great feedback by don_budge in this thread. You really don't have too far to go from where you are now to develop your serve into something significantly better. I love don_budge's descriptive writings on the serve. It's so much better than reducing things down to technical positions. I think he conveys what good serve should "feel" like really well.

Ditto!!!!!

[don_budge]

Frame #37…the Width of the Backswing

Very cool of you to say so Stotty and 10splayer…klacr as well (from the "other" thread). Sort of blows gzhpcu's "no praise like self praise" out of the water. Respectful words from highly esteemed colleagues trump all.

But take a look at frame #37 here…pvchen.

http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/strokearchive/pro_men/rogerfederer/rogerfederer_serve/rogerfederer_1st_serve/rogerfederer_1st_serve.html?Federer1stSDeuceCourtLevelSide2.mov

Frame #37 gives a view of the “width” in Federer's backswing. While his arm, hand and racquet is still in the exact same position that it was at address he has swung the entire unit in one piece until the racquet is as far away from his body as it could be. Or look at it this way...his hand is as far away from his ear as it could be. His weight is all the way back into his back foot. Here is where he will start bending his knees on the way forwards.

Federer's racquet head is all of the way back and so is his weight. He continued the movement with his racquet head synchronized with his weight throughout his backswing. Deliberate and natural.

[pvchen]

More Young vs 'Mature' Fed comparisons

Hi Guys,
I tried my serve playing points with a practice buddy, and I served about 40 solid points without a single double fault. That's a huge improvement for me, so thanks!

I think this well-put idea of the roller coaster ride, and the focus on rhythm beginning from the starting position has paid real dividends, and it makes a lot of sense to me. I feel that I have had a much greater ability to change the starting stance and the backswing, as opposed to altering my swing once the ball's up in the air. Maybe a world class athlete like Andy Murray can compensate for awkward balance and position, but not me!

On the topic of Young vs. Mature (can't say old with the way he's playing and winning) Fed, I made some snapshots in different views of various checkpoints. What do people think?

One thing I noticed is that I initially thought Fed was bending his knees more recently, but actually I think it's just the timing of the knee bend. It looks to me like, in the past, he used to get down further, but later in the stroke.

[stotty]

Hi Guys,
I tried my serve playing points with a practice buddy, and I served about 40 solid points without a single double fault. That's a huge improvement for me, so thanks!

I think this well-put idea of the roller coaster ride, and the focus on rhythm beginning from the starting position has paid real dividends, and it makes a lot of sense to me. I feel that I have had a much greater ability to change the starting stance and the backswing, as opposed to altering my swing once the ball's up in the air. Maybe a world class athlete like Andy Murray can compensate for awkward balance and position, but not me!

On the topic of Young vs. Mature (can't say old with the way he's playing and winning) Fed, I made some snapshots in different views of various checkpoints. What do people think?

One thing I noticed is that I initially thought Fed was bending his knees more recently, but actually I think it's just the timing of the knee bend. It looks to me like, in the past, he used to get down further, but later in the stroke.

Could to see some of the advice is paying off.

One of the things I am wary of with watching players on videos or in a photo sequence is camera angles. Racket faces, knee bends, rotations, etc. can all look different from different camera angles. It has to be very close to like-for-like angles to convince me something truly different is going on.