Peter Chen Serve

[pvchen]

Hi Guys,

Thanks for all of the very thoughtful and detailed responses. I've got a lot to work on, and this gives me some great ideas on where to start. I'll try to make adjustments the next time I'm on court and post progress.

Can someone explain how the direction that the front toe faces affects the serve? And also how staggering the feet affects the serve?

I get confused about whether the foot should be parallel to the baseline, pointed toward the net post, and how this varies when serving from the ad vs. the deuce court.
Also, I've heard described stances where the feet are lined up toe to toe, staggered front heel to back toe, staggered front heel to arch of back foot, or lined up in the direction of the shot.

Peter

[johnyandell]

Yeah a few stance choices right? If the front toe is too open so usually are the shoulders.
Something like front foot parallel to 30 degrees to the baseline. A little more open in deuce court.
Something like the back foot parallel to the baseline, or turned back a little.
Something like the rear foot tip of toe off set to the arch of the front foot.

[jeffreycounts]

Peter Serve

Peter,

I really like the rhythm of your serve. You have a smooth motion and a nice brief pause in the trophy position which is fantastic. Your toss is beautiful. Straight arm and your release point is at eye level. I have seen so many jerky serves with bad tossing mechanics (bent arm, low release point). Your serve is a real delight to watch.

In terms of the next level. Others have pointed out your stance. The way you bring your right foot forward and well to the right of your left foot needs to be corrected and should be an easy fix.

More importantly for me, though, is to work on your throwing mechanics. Specifically to get your racket to run more along the side of your body in the drop so that you can get more rotation of the arm into the ball followed by more pronation through the ball. Check this article out for reference. As Chad mentions, almost half of the racket head speed comes from this rotation/pronation dynamic.

Jeff

[hockeyscout]

Like your work Jeff. Nice job.

[jeffreycounts]

Like your work Jeff. Nice job.

Thanks!

[10splayer]

Peter,

A lot of good advice here. Not much of a fan of the lateral pinpoint, but, if you decide to keep it, I believe there is one absolute key...Because, the right foot swings around even with the left, the hips are going to "open"..Because of this, it is critical, that you retain, or increase your shoulder angle..In other words, really keep them "closed", until the leg drive. If you do this, there will be some separation angle (potential torque) between your lower and upper body..Same principle in open stanced ground strokes

Take a look at this video.

https://youtu.be/PyY1EXp4sCw

Can you see how Jerzy keeps that right shoulder back, or "deep" even after the right leg swings up and around? In your case, the shoulders "open" with the leg movement, and as a result, at the point of knee extension, there is very little dynamic rotational ability.

On a side note, it looks like your balance, or center of mass is too centered. (tough to tell) It should be more forward at leg drive. "Cartwheeling" will be much easier.

[GeoffWilliams]

I would get rid of that move the right foot over, and move to a plaform stance, which will help prevent hamstring issues if he obtains a bigger motion.

[stroke]

very good from Jeff and 10splayer. One thing that may be worth a try is serving with your feet/toes together, kind of like Monfils, and see how that works. If you start with your feet together like this(both toes aligned kind of at 45 degress pointed toward the net post) and don't move your feet all, I think you may get a feel for what 10splayer is talking about.

[pvchen]

More help, please?

Hi Guys,

So, I've tried to work on a few things. I figured I should start at the beginning of my motion to try to get the kinetic chain working from the start. I did some drills hitting serves from the back foot, and also worked on weight transfer at the start. I now have a platform stance, and a rocking motion.

However, my serve is less consistent and has less power than before.

Any ideas on where I should go from here?

Serves in slow motion

http://youtu.be/z9O7HF-PpTA

Same serves in real time:

http://youtu.be/ijQncxC9VKE

thanks,
Peter

[lobndropshot]

same video on both

[stotty]

same video on both

Yes and can we have a side view please?

[lobndropshot]

That last serve in the video shows me you are on the right track. I was watching your left foot and I think it's an issue. You have to much left to right movement in your serve. Could you post a video where you don't move your feet at all?

[curiosity]

Hi Guys,

.....However, my serve is less consistent and has less power than before.
Any ideas on where I should go from here?

hey Peter: Some parts of your serve, especially your hitting arm extension up to the ball, seem effective. There are, though, a number of things you could change easily to get better power and consistency.

The serve is an upward motion, not a forward motion: If you execute the sequence of actions correctly the feeling will be of sort of cork-screwing upward, extending upward. Your racquet will translate all that rising speed to forward speed at the last instant. You already handle that 'last instant' fairly well.

In the first set of videos your deepest knee-bend actually is achieved before you even toss. Really. I stopped the vid and compared it to your later "trophy" position knee bend, which was shallower. Knee bend matters for several reasons: 1. If you don't bend your knees going to trophy you cannot rotate your hips and torso back well. (Try it with straight legs!) 2. The extension of your legs/bent knees when you launch the serve from trophy will power your UB around only IF your UB was rotated farther back than your hips in trophy: UB rotation speed is a critical measure of the power you will have available for racquet head speed, racquet rise speed. Get a bit more knee bend, and get it at the right time, into trophy...

The raised straight tossing arm: You are dropping it early and without effect, just letting it collapse. At the instant you launch the serve, drop/toss the straight tossing arm toward your leading side, down and slightly to the left. Then... pull in the tossing elbow exactly when your racquet has bottomed out, when the hitting elbow is about to rise fast. The effect will be to speed your torso rotation slightly just at the right time, helping the racquet rise.

Shoulders and hips: You must get your shoulders turned back farther than your hips in your prep, even if only slightly. If you don't, then you cannot make good use of leg extension power. Also, typically the hips should come around a bit slightly before the shoulders in the first instants after service launch, due to leg extenstion...and this calls for appropriate footwork. Best of luck.

[pvchen]

Timing and coordination of knee bend and leg thrust

Sorry about the videos. I have to figure out how to upload slow motion videos from iPhone to YouTube. And I'll try to record a side view next time I get to the court.

Meanwhile, what do people think about timing of the knee bend and leg thrust and coordination with other elements of the serve? The Rick Macci video that Don Budge posted said that the number one mistake is to start the leg thrust too late, after the racquet has dropped from the vertical of trophy position. Several have commented on turning the shoulders against the hips or keeping them closed longer. What do people think should be the position of the body at the moments when the knees bend and when the legs thrust? (For example, shoulders open to net or turned away; racquet going up, down) Is timing of these elements a critical early step or a distraction from what happens with the arm and shoulder on the upward swing?

Thanks,
Peter

[eaglesburg]

Sorry about the videos. I have to figure out how to upload slow motion videos from iPhone to YouTube. And I'll try to record a side view next time I get to the court.

Meanwhile, what do people think about timing of the knee bend and leg thrust and coordination with other elements of the serve? The Rick Macci video that Don Budge posted said that the number one mistake is to start the leg thrust too late, after the racquet has dropped from the vertical of trophy position. Several have commented on turning the shoulders against the hips or keeping them closed longer. What do people think should be the position of the body at the moments when the knees bend and when the legs thrust? (For example, shoulders open to net or turned away; racquet going up, down) Is timing of these elements a critical early step or a distraction from what happens with the arm and shoulder on the upward swing?

Thanks,
Peter

To upload slow mo straight from iPhone to youtube use the photos app to upload and click that up arrow at the bottom. Then click youtube and enter all the info. That is how I do it.