The Myth of the Archer's Bow

[klacr]

Babolat vs at 62lbs sounds splendid. Before I played with Luxilon Big Banger Rough, I used to string my frames with vs and other natural and syn gut strings between 65-70lbs. Felt amazing. Always enjoyed string feel on the tighter range.

As for the "archer's bow" conundrum, What the player's do and how they contort their bodies may look like something unique and groundbreaking to us, and it could be. But to them, it's being able to deliver the best shot in the right situation over and over again.
The way the body turns, dips, leans and loads on the serve gives the human eye many things to see, analyze and interpret. It's how we implement it that really matters. I've heard of the "archer's bow" term many times before but personally, I've never consciously thought about or attempted the "Archer's Bow" position when I'm serving or when I'm teaching my students. Although the serve is unique to everyone, the players who seem to have the best serves also meet the basic fundamental checkpoints as well. Not a coincidence. It is these checkpoints that often create a certain image during the motion across the board of world class servers that people seem to latch onto as "the secret trick". Some physical position that can be spotted, frozen and duplicated "in the moment". Truth be told, there are no secrets to make this moment happen, just great technique following the fundamentals. A specific point in the motion cannot just be gotten to at will, it is a chain of events that creates it.

Great article.

Kyle LaCroix USPTA
Boca Raton

[GeoffWilliams]

Claiming it's a myth, is like claiming the sun rises every day is a myth. It doesn't rise, the earth spins. Just a way of provoking discussion, and disagreement.

[klacr]

Thats why we should all appreciate the forums Geoff. We have the right to agree and most importantly, disagree. Thats how we learn and become even better. What we see is identical, how we interpret and express it in our games is different. It's not of significance what we call this move nor who performs the manuever, it is significant that we understand its implications and how it can or cannot improve our students' games.

What is right is more important than who is right - John Wooden

Kyle LaCroix USPTA
Boca Raton

[GeoffWilliams]

There is always a bit of time lag (and reaction time lag, mental understanding lag, strategic adjustment lag, etc.) between sight and reaction to sight, memory is all we have, past, there is no present, and future;' so memory is all we have. I don't think it's a coincidence, that the best servers, best players, best offensive defenders, all have this in common: short reaction time lag, and short memories! Choking is just an experience of a greater time lag, a staggered time lag, an extended reaction time lag. And so is bad technique. So a rose by any other name is a rose, and an archer's bow is by any other name the same. Those who don't bow don't get as deep a frame drop, or as great a kinetic path way. Less whip lash distance. Like snapping a shorter, less heavy, less deadly whip.

The fastest man alive has a .05 second time lag. How much can change in .05 sec? In that time, you can hit 12 shots on the string bed, as the ball only stays there for 4/1000th of a second. Most of us are slower than that! Ha, ha. Those who are able to slow time down are those who spend more time at least perceived, zoning. The simple truth is, the greater the bow, the faster the coil, the higher the stored energy in your split step, the more power/energy/potential you store regardless of how we describe it.

[10splayer]

What I see happening is just a consequence as well. When the weight shifts, and the knees bend (lower body moves forward) the upper body will "tilt" to "find balance".

The problem with the whole "archer's bow" thought process, is that if the lower body doesn't shift and bend, and the player tries to emulate this position, the center of mass will be "behind" them at the point the legs drive..A real bad thing.

In fact, one of the most important aspects of proper forward angular momentum (shoulder over shoulder) is that the position of the COM is nearer the left leg.

[johnyandell]

10s,

Agreed.

[klacr]

What I see happening is just a consequence as well. When the weight shifts, and the knees bend (lower body moves forward) the upper body will "tilt" to "find balance".

The problem with the whole "archer's bow" thought process, is that if the lower body doesn't shift and bend, and the player tries to emulate this position, the center of mass will be "behind" them at the point the legs drive..A real bad thing.

In fact, one of the most important aspects of proper forward angular momentum (shoulder over shoulder) is that the position of the COM is nearer the left leg.

well said.

Kyle LaCroix USPTA
Boca Raton

[GeoffWilliams]

The Goldstein piece, where John improved his bow/back arch, in order to get a deeper frame drop, is a dead give away that it is valid, not a myth. Look at his back arch/bow afterwards, and see if it's not been increased. It's the whole reason his contact point changed, more bow than what he started with and more balance due to it. His left hip extension out over the base line has also increased.

http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/your_strokes/2006/paul_goldstein_serve_part2_5_01_06/paul_goldstein_serve_part2_5_01_06.html

[studini]

So Geoff,
You are using the 110 inch frame now?

Dave

[GeoffWilliams]

Yes, but I have it leaded/siliconed up to 265g. Also using vs gut mains/x1 biphase crosses: 62lbs on mains, and: 62 first two down, 46 next four down, and 62 on down to bottom. The whole design of this frame, and it's stringing, is to push the sweet spot up higher, where I actually hit the ball! Feels amazing.

[privas]

Archer Bow (AB), Revisited

Wow, these comments have been so entertaining to read! Thanks everyone. The AB exists, surely as Fed and Sharapova resemble Apollo and Artemis, the great archers from the Greek pantheon. Mr. Yandell has now debunked AB as an "independent" variable, i.e. something you teach your students to do, like the "wrist snap." The Greek gods could float in the air while rotating their entire torsos like the Sampras serve, but it's nothing I will ever be able to do. I don't suppose that I'll put a label on this move (say, the "Zeus corkscrew") and teach it to my kids.
Cheers. Pedro

[bottle]

Beautiful. A "rotorded" server (a server such as I who isn't flexible enough to get racket tip sufficiently low) should adopt an old-fashioned pre rule change serve with chest open to sky. He should bend and shift to add lowness of tip but most often not move head during business part of the motion. Then to add oomph for surprise he might try once in a while to straighten body at the same time. And he should avoid (or invent a trophy position lower than normal), since the vaunted trophy position of most tennis instruction discriminates especially against him by shortening his runway.

[johnyandell]

privas,

yes it's a "debated" issue here and in the larger world, but you i think summarized the reality.

[jdcremin]

Sampras once said, ''I hit it as hard as I can, as close to the line as I can,'' .

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/1990-09-09/sports/9009090747_1_becker-mcenroe-sampras

I will always believe that the serve is nothing more than a throwing of the racquet. All sundry body movements that we pick out are simply the result of a high level thrower. If you can throw a racquet the length of a tennis court, flipping fast end over end, then you can stop working on that part of the technique right now. If you can't - then practice that. Most people will never get even this far because they are so concerned about control and proper form - when in reality, control on a serve is the last thing you want to have and form is just that of a throw.
For the people that can let go and throw the racquet, they should focus all of their training on the toss and the correct contact point, then spins. Take an old racquet to a field and be done with all this nonsense.

BTW - I think the best tip for problem tosses is to look at where you're starting your toss. If the ball is always going too far back, move your start point towards your back knee. It's very difficult to toss it out in front if your hand is way out in front to begin with - because the hand wants to arc back. Find your correct start point and start there every time. Some for left or right problems - adjust the starting point.

[stotty]

Sampras once said, ''I hit it as hard as I can, as close to the line as I can,'' .

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/1990-09-09/sports/9009090747_1_becker-mcenroe-sampras

I will always believe that the serve is nothing more than a throwing of the racquet. All sundry body movements that we pick out are simply the result of a high level thrower. If you can throw a racquet the length of a tennis court, flipping fast end over end, then you can stop working on that part of the technique right now. If you can't - then practice that. Most people will never get even this far because they are so concerned about control and proper form - when in reality, control on a serve is the last thing you want to have and form is just that of a throw.
For the people that can let go and throw the racquet, they should focus all of their training on the toss and the correct contact point, then spins. Take an old racquet to a field and be done with all this nonsense.

I feel in many cases you might be right. Players who can throw a tennis ball (or racket) a long way are half way there to start with. Nevertheless things can still go wrong, or be less than ideal, because an element is imperfect or missing. Andy Murray would seem to be an example of a top player with an element of his serve that is less than ideal.

I know nothing about baseball but I assume there are pitches and then there are pitches who pitch that bit better?

I think the best thing about Tennisplayer is it breaks down strokes so we can all fully understand and know what to look for. Players can become incrementally better by fixings small things.