Interactive Forum July 2015: Jo Willie Forehand Error

[johnyandell]

Jo Willie Forehand Error

Let’s analyze this inside forehand error from world top 10 player Jo Willie Tsonga.

Most players at his level have similar technical elements and also a similar range of elements. But what about Jo Willie?

I suspect many of our regular contributors can guess my thoughts. But if you were coaching Jo Willie and saw this, what would you tell him?

If you were working with him on court, how would you correct what the high speed video shows?

[johnyandell]

Quicktime version

Jo Willie Forehand Error

[gzhpcu]

Doesn't seem to be extending much after impact, just slapping the ball...

[klacr]

Tsonga has been a Top 5 player and Grand slam finalist so there are clearly many things he does right. But....

Yes, the extension (or lack thereof) is pretty bad. But he has always had that swing and issue. Often times, he gets away with it, which is even more amazing. He also brings his left arm back and bent pretty severely but he does swing it open and out across the body (pro turn) just before contact, just not as much of a stretch as many top players. His right elbow gets behind him a bit too much for my liking instead of staying to the outside.

Another point is that he seems to have plenty of time to set up, which he would have moved in and taken it as a volley, or set up in more of a semi-open or even neutral stance to drive that ball through his hitting zone, his body rotation brings that racquet head and arm across a bit too much for my liking. Great video that John got of a clear error. So often we see perfect shots or at least shots in which outcome was not seen from this caliber of player. Good to see they are human.

Kyle LaCroix USPTA
Boca Raton

[bottle]

Why waste time bringing the racket tip up like Federer? Just lead from the elbow since elbow throw this way and that way is where in this bent arm model arm supplemental power is coming from. And why keep right arm bent so long after contact? Just a little bit after contact. Relax it straight like Ben Hogan or Pete Sampras at five. And why so perceptibly haul human head to left? An inch at most? I realize the head movement happens after the ball is gone but think that every athletic movement is affected by what happens immediately afterward. Another way of putting this is send energy out rather than across.

[don_budge]

Energy and Balance…Reverse Crosscourt Forehands

Another way of putting this is send energy out rather than across.

Tennis is a game of energy and balance…much like golf. Jo-Wilfried violates both principles on this particular swing. As a talented athlete he can pull this off a majority of the time due to the size of the racquet.

I am really looking forwards to an article by John on the reverse crosscourt forehand such as this one. I am particularly curious what his conclusions will be on the footwork and weight transfer…or rather how the energy is most effectively transformed into the tennis ball…as bottle alludes to.

[stotty]

[B]
If you were working with him on court, how would you correct what the high speed video shows?

It could be the slow motion but he looks like he has set up a tad too early and there are not enough micro steps going on.

Here is a clip of Verdasco I took a few years ago at Wimbledon, hitting a similar inside-out forehand. There are 8 little micro steps going on to set up this beauty.

https://vimeo.com/113718180

[GeoffWilliams]

Does not extend his non dom arm out parallel to the base line, which limits his coil.
Does not extend his frame all the way back, which limits his coil. Cramps his whole shot, by keeping it too close to the body the whole time. Three coil limiting issues.

[tennis_chiro]

Considering all the above comments, Tsonga is leaving a lot of potential additional performance untapped. He is such a great athlete and so strong that he can get away with it... a lot of the time. But when push comes to shove, he has been injured a great deal in his career although he certainly doesn't appear to have what would be considered a fragile frame. His body pays a toll for the inefficiencies in his stoke mechanics. And his performance, although sometimes brilliant even against the best in the world, doesn't hold up well enough to yield him the kind of results that we all kind of expected of him when he burst on the scene in that first Australian Open final.

don

[stroke]

I would say he has a type 3 forehand. It is just about as not easy on the eye as Federer's is easy on the eye. That being said, his forehand, along with his serve(which is great, though not Raonic/Roddick great) are his weapons. As Kyle kinda said, there are no points for style. Otherwise, Roger would never lose a match.

[don_budge]

A Missed Forehand…or the Root Cause

Afterall what is a missed forehand in the total scope of things? Tsonga's strength does lie on his forehand side. He is also a "brutal" server without perhaps as much finesse as he should possess.

Tsonga is another big guy that was trapped early on in the "modern paradigm" of tennis. Strong gripped forehand and two hand backhand with a suspect service motion complete with a suspect grip. A service motion and grip designed and built to brutalize the ball.

Why wouldn't a player of this man's talent use a one hand backhand complete with full court tactics? Why wouldn't his service game be a bit more sophisticated? These are the questions…it is not as simple as missing a forehand. Or is it?

Obviously he prefers to hit the forehand given a choice. Afterall he is way over to the backhand side to hit this ball. Perhaps beyond the possible technical flaw that someone might find in this particular stroke lies the bigger question of his overall game and it's development. The French have quite a diverse group of high level players that use a wide range of technique ranging from fundamentally correct to outright unconventional. What is the source of their diversity? Is it a cultural thing? Artistic license?

Tsonga is playing the "wrong" game. He should be punishing that ball with a backhand…a one handed backhand. The most natural swing in tennis. I saw him hit a one handed backhand pass down the line last week on a ball that he didn't have the time to go with the two handed. He has bought into the wrong paradigm…the glorified junior game. He would have been better off following the don_budge paradigm from the beginning.

[johnyandell]

Love this one:

http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/high_speed_archive/phantom/Jo-Wilfried_Tsonga_HD_HS/index.html?dir=Backhand/JT_BH_Wide&stroke=BH%20Wide%20One-Handed%20OpenStance%20Rear%20240fps.mp4

The same question about the one-hander could be asked about DelPoltro, another guy who just doesn't look that natural with 2.

[johnyandell]

Stotty,

Love the Verdasco FH--full extension and full rotation. Great model in addition to the footwork!

[klacr]

Tsonga actually hits the one-hander more often than any two hander I can remember. He hits them on the run as passiong shots and gives it a good crack.

Oh, what could have been.

https://www.youtube.com/results?sear...nded+backhands

Re: Verdasco forehand.

One of my all time favorite shots. Just an awesome technical model.

Kyle LaCroix USPTA
Boca Raton

[hockeyscout]

In summary

So, before I post let me summarize what tennis coaches and fans of the game believe.

gzhpcu 
No extension
Slapping the ball

klacr 
He does a lot of things right
No extension
No pro turn
Elbow positioning problems
Doesn't get into position

bottle 
Elbow is bent after contact

don_budge 
Tennis is a game of energy and balance
Compares tennis to golf
Jo-Wilfried violates principles
Big racket saves him
Wants to see what John Yandell has to say

licensedcoach 
Microsteps are poor
Set up to early
Watch another player who hit a magic ball

Geoff Williams
Three coiling issues

tennis_chiro 
Untapped potentials
Lots of injuries
Poor stroke mechanics

And Don_Budge again:

Wrong paradym
Bad grips
No one handed backhand
He'd be a better player under don_budge's manifesto

I will explain in the next post how I'd actually fix it. Everyone understands the bad outcome (although I see the outcome much differently than all of you), however, what do we do to get to cause so it can be patched up properly.