The Hunter and the Helper

[BillPrevidi]

Thank you!

That's awesome! I'm glad we could help. We're currently out in LaJolla teaching a bunch of clinics and seminars as well as playing in the USTA National Father -Son Hard courts.
I've been all over the past few months teaching doubles in a systematic way and the response has been amazing. Everyone wants to know why they've never heard this before. Thanks again for the feedback and good luck!

[lobndropshot]

Bill and Matt,

I wanted to thank you guys for publishing your articles on tennis player. Your articles have had a huge impact on my doubles game. In fact, I won my doubles league last night using the principles you teach (I am a 4.5 and I beat out 5.0 competitors to claim the crown). The biggest change to my game was the way I hit my first volley to set up my partner versus setting myself up.

Thanks again!

[BillPrevidi]

That is a very interesting and thought provoking question. I agree that the flat serve is overused and basically useless in doubles and the pkayers that use it the most tend to be the worst at it. They also tend to lose their serves all the time.
I think there is a place for every shot if it's used appropriately and in the proper context. For instance, a crosscourt dipper is a great shot but I know a few players who try to hit it after they run back for a lob over their partners head!
My partner and I are always amazed in tournaments (and more so in recreational tennis) how many unnecessary mistakes players make, how many shots players hit with no regard to setting up the point or the situation they're putting their partner in, and how many times shots are hit for ego purposes only.
Teamwork, and the ability to work as one are the keys to any team sport and many times that is lost on tennis players, thus the poor shot selection. As my coach used to say" keep,hitting set ups and the point will take care of itself." He also said hit every shot like it's your next to last shot. That is a great one and I always remind myself of it when I'm getting too anxious to to great things. It's always the little things that count.

[lobndropshot]

Sorry to butt in. I know Bill will answer you directly himself one he reads you.

There probably isn't one shot you would eliminate. All shots have there uses. Just don't play singles on a doubles court, that's all I ask.

Dinks are still handy in amateur doubles play, though much out of fashion in today's powerful pro game. The disgraced Bob Hewitt was incredibly good at dinks...so deft.

I totally agree! Of course if you are able to hit every shot in the game you should. Or should you? But a gun is being held to your head and you must eliminate one shot!

I think I would eliminate the swinging volley or the flat serve.

[stotty]

let's say we are looking to improve shot selection: in doubles what are the shots you seldom advocate hitting? Or yes, If you had to take one shot out of your repertoire what would it be? Or what shot do you think is hit too often? Is there a shot the creates a disadvantage more often than an advantage?

Does That make more sense?

Sorry to butt in. I know Bill will answer you directly himself one he reads you.

There probably isn't one shot you would eliminate. All shots have there uses. Just don't play singles on a doubles court, that's all I ask.

Dinks are still handy in amateur doubles play, though much out of fashion in today's powerful pro game. The disgraced Bob Hewitt was incredibly good at dinks...so deft.

[lobndropshot]

let's say we are looking to improve shot selection: in doubles what are the shots you seldom advocate hitting? Or yes, If you had to take one shot out of your repertoire what would it be? Or what shot do you think is hit too often? Is there a shot the creates a disadvantage more often than an advantage?

Does That make more sense?

[BillPrevidi]

Eliminating a shot

Can you be more specific? Eliminate in what way? By rule, something I'd like to take out of my repertoire. I don't understand the question. Sorry

[lobndropshot]

Hi Bill,

If you had to eliminate one shot in doubles what would it be?

[BillPrevidi]

Staggered net position

Bluesconsort. I respectfully disagree with your analysis of the staggered position. If the crosscourt player closes in, they are very vulnerable to the crosscourt lob. Even if the other player can run it down, they have to run diagonally rather than straight and will be in a terrible position. For that reason the person down the line will be forced to cheat back to cover the crosscourt lob and will be very vulnerable to balls at their feet.
If you think of the things you don't want in doubles, balls at your feet and balls over your head are two you want to avoid. In your scenario you're setting yourself up for both. In our scenario the Hunter is going to cover most of their line ( depending on the score, etc.) and help out on any crosscourt balls they can pick off. The Helper will cover sharp angles ( net strap) and eliminate crosscourt lobs from getting over their head. If the opponents go down the middle the Hunter has opportunity and the Helper has responsibility so there are two layers of defense and no confusion.
Also, the goal is for the helper to be able to angle the ball in front of their partner. This will allow them both to get closer as the opponent has to come up to get the low ball. Now both players are in a position to attack and be offensive.
I recently played a match in a USTA league. One of our opponents would hit his first volley to me and immediately get on top of the net. After the fourth crosscourt lob winner ( two topspin, two regular) i almost wanted to tell him to stop closing in ( I didn't). When I lobbed over his head he would yell "help" and his partner would sprint back for the lob. He was able to return two of them ( weakly) and we put both balls away.
I hope I've answered your question in relation to the system. Great question! Keep them coming!

[bluesconsort]

I also have been wondering about x-court back

I like the idea of staggered net positioning. However, first blush, I would have thought the up player would be x-court from the ball, and the back player on the line.

Why? The opponent's x-court shot moves away from the net player as the net player positions further back. The line shot moves straight ahead, so there is no penalty to playing further back, other than having to pick up low balls.

On serve, I can see two reasons for Mr Previdi's positioning
1) The server will end up near the service line for first volley, so will already be in desired position
2) The net player will be better positioned to close the center if closer to net

On return, if the returner chooses to follow the return to net, (1) above applies as well.

So, I prefer staggering net players x-court up, line back *but* I can see that there's a problem getting there.

[llll]

i posted this in the other thread about your system
dont know which thread is the correct one to post it
no need to duplicate your response ill check both threads
my title was
POSSIBLE FLAW IN THE SYSTEM FOR ONE SCENARIO
if i understand your positioning correctly
the cross court player (helper)is deeper in the service box than his partner (hunter)
in the last video you show in your introduction article
the server has hit a short angled volley
and stayed deeper in the service box than his partner
it worked out in your video because the opponent tried to lob the net player closest to him couldnt get it high enough and the hunter put it away
HOWEVER
i was taught on a low wide ball
angle = angle and i would have hit a short angle reply
and your helper would have been out position for it
the way i was taught positioning in that scenario is
the helper (cross court player)would follow his ball and close the net to take the angle away
and his partner would go deeper in the service box to cover the lob
your thoughts???
by the way
great article and i agree with most everything....
looking forward to your advice on conquering the dreaded lobbers

[rossvalleyfilming]

Bill Previdi

That's me posting as Ross Valley. I will get it corrected

[rossvalleyfilming]

Hunter and Helper

I think any tactic or strategy must be "tailored" to the players we're working with. When I was coaching basketball, I taught the same basic concepts to all my players but the 11 year olds were at a different place than the high school players. You're teaching a foundation and building on that foundation.
I'd be interested to see what drill you did today. How was it set up. How did you play it out. How good was their understanding of Hunter and Helper.
I always like to do skill drills first (e.g., Helper hits a mid court volley in front of Hunter, Hunter goes short to short with attacking volley and overhead). Fed ball drill. Then we turn that situation into a game with all four players, taking time to explain where each player should be, where they hit, and making corrections after several points. Depending on the level, different concepts are being stressed.
The advantages of The System is that you are creating layers of defense. There's no confusion on middle balls ( Hunter has opportunity, Helper has responsibility). The Helper prevents crosscourt lobs and covers all deep lobs over the Hunter's head. Meanwhile, the Hunter can focus on being in an offensive position and not fading off the net. It's also important that both players hit their shots to the right place to set up their team, not their opponents.
By keeping the net strap between the Helper and the other crosscourt player, you are in the middle of all their returns to your side and can't be beaten by a sharp angle.
As far as who this might work for, most of my teaching is adults from 2.5-4.5 and it certainly works there.They love the structure and the fact that they're gaining a better understanding of the game rather than just getting corrections on how they hit the ball. A pro who is going to teach it must be a good coach and able to understand and diagnose situations and make them understandable, like a coach in any team sport. I use it all the time when I
play and I'm playing at a sectional and national level.
I do disagree about your statement that good , fast doubles is all about closing down the net and hoping your opponent lobs. That worked great when everyone used wood rackets and no one hit hard or with a lot of topspin and all the lobs were defensive. It's a different game now. Also, high school players and teams can thrive in this system.
In closing I think it's important to point out that in team sports, there can be many "systems" that are used. In basketball you can play a zone or man-to-man. The key is that you need to teach your system well, commit to it and get your players to buy into it. After 35+ years of teaching I have found my system to be the best for the people I teach and play with. Hopefully all of the questions can be answered as you see all of the articles that are going to be posted ( 11 in all). I love and apprecaite the give and take, let's keep it going!

[stotty]

I would like to give you a detailed response to your question. I'm about to go out and teach a bunch of clinics to 3.5 players. I will try to get back to you this evening.

I tried the drill again this morning with a group of women. Like I said in my other thread, "hunter and helper" can work if it's tailored to the standard of players being worked with. I think it can work really well for vets, too, where lobs are a killer -although in club doubles the lob played most often is the one down the line.

I might be slightly wary on using the concept for young upcoming players for fear of engraining something they ought not to be doing. Good, fast doubles is all about closing down the net and hoping to get lobs, after all. When I was a young athletic player getting your opponent to lob was as good as game over. It wasn't about guarding against it. You wanted one!

I think the concept could work best in decent standard vets tennis where the players have the volley skills to volley from the service line...and where guarding against the lob is a good ploy.

[BillPrevidi]

I would like to give you a detailed response to your question. I'm about to go out and teach a bunch of clinics to 3.5 players. I will try to get back to you this evening.