The Hunter and the Helper

[johnyandell]

Let's discuss Bill Previdi's article "The Hunter and the Helper"

[klacr]

Nice article for any club teaching pro to read. In South Florida, ladies doubles teams can make or break a career. Important to have a system or strategy. This gives a great outline to some basic doubles situations that those of us in the trenches can use. Great job Bill and Matt. Keep it up.

Kyle LaCroix USPTA
Boca Raton

[ClassicStrokes]

This idea of one player always being behind the service line is very interesting.

[klacr]

This idea of one player always being behind the service line is very interesting.

Vast majority of club players play doubles. The two up/staggered position is effective in covering the lob, the #1 shot in club doubles. The Helper position is ideal because at the club level most players aren't capable of covering the net and then leaping back to cover the lob with a great overhead. As the opponents lob it's the deeper player who has the time and appropriate angle to take the shot.

Defend the lob is what much of club doubles comes down to.


Kyle LaCroix USPTA
Boca Raton

[don_budge]

Doubles in the Modern Era...

Let's discuss Bill Previdi's article "The Hunter and the Helper"

Doubles use to be an integral part of the game…way back when. Watching the doubles was highly entertaining when the best names in the game were participating. Of course…you were learning by watching.

The game today has minimized the doubles game and the top players are only marginally interested. Interesting that somehow Indian Wells gets the big names to play sometimes. But in most cases they are not what you call serious doubles players.

The top players used to be serious though…they needed the paycheck to eat.

[bowt]

I honestly didn't like the article

probably only applies to gumbys who find it difficult to hit the ball

The distance the Helper gets from the net is determined by the distance from the baseline of the opposite side opponent. The closer the opponent gets, the closer the Helper gets but he is always in proximity to the service line.

dont think a single good player would be thinking about positioning like this

[tennis_chiro]

I like the basic conceptual approach of thinking in terms of a hunter and a helper and using the net cord as a positioning device depending on the placement of your shot. However, I am a little concerned about the stroke capabilities of 2.5, 3.0 and 3.5 players. The positioning concept is great; even the decision making process on where to hit your volleys... when the ball is above the net. But the idea that a 3.5 player is going to be able to rush in and take a volley below the net and hit it short and crosscourt when he/she was really looking for a short high one that they could hit down the opposing net player's throat. I'm also having a little trouble getting my mind around deciding whether to lob crosscourt or down the line when the opponents line up closer or farther from the net (especially if the players are 3.5, 3.0 or 2.5). I'm really questioning whether the proficiency is there for such a nuanced strategy. (please understand that my image of a 3.0 player is Sally Suburban with a 120 sq. in. Weed that she loves to use at the net with her pancake grip forehand volley on floaters about shoulder height, but almost no backhand volley whatsoever.)

Perhaps you could elaborate on that just a little more.

don

[BillPrevidi]

I would like to give you a detailed response to your question. I'm about to go out and teach a bunch of clinics to 3.5 players. I will try to get back to you this evening.

[stotty]

I would like to give you a detailed response to your question. I'm about to go out and teach a bunch of clinics to 3.5 players. I will try to get back to you this evening.

I tried the drill again this morning with a group of women. Like I said in my other thread, "hunter and helper" can work if it's tailored to the standard of players being worked with. I think it can work really well for vets, too, where lobs are a killer -although in club doubles the lob played most often is the one down the line.

I might be slightly wary on using the concept for young upcoming players for fear of engraining something they ought not to be doing. Good, fast doubles is all about closing down the net and hoping to get lobs, after all. When I was a young athletic player getting your opponent to lob was as good as game over. It wasn't about guarding against it. You wanted one!

I think the concept could work best in decent standard vets tennis where the players have the volley skills to volley from the service line...and where guarding against the lob is a good ploy.

[rossvalleyfilming]

Hunter and Helper

I think any tactic or strategy must be "tailored" to the players we're working with. When I was coaching basketball, I taught the same basic concepts to all my players but the 11 year olds were at a different place than the high school players. You're teaching a foundation and building on that foundation.
I'd be interested to see what drill you did today. How was it set up. How did you play it out. How good was their understanding of Hunter and Helper.
I always like to do skill drills first (e.g., Helper hits a mid court volley in front of Hunter, Hunter goes short to short with attacking volley and overhead). Fed ball drill. Then we turn that situation into a game with all four players, taking time to explain where each player should be, where they hit, and making corrections after several points. Depending on the level, different concepts are being stressed.
The advantages of The System is that you are creating layers of defense. There's no confusion on middle balls ( Hunter has opportunity, Helper has responsibility). The Helper prevents crosscourt lobs and covers all deep lobs over the Hunter's head. Meanwhile, the Hunter can focus on being in an offensive position and not fading off the net. It's also important that both players hit their shots to the right place to set up their team, not their opponents.
By keeping the net strap between the Helper and the other crosscourt player, you are in the middle of all their returns to your side and can't be beaten by a sharp angle.
As far as who this might work for, most of my teaching is adults from 2.5-4.5 and it certainly works there.They love the structure and the fact that they're gaining a better understanding of the game rather than just getting corrections on how they hit the ball. A pro who is going to teach it must be a good coach and able to understand and diagnose situations and make them understandable, like a coach in any team sport. I use it all the time when I
play and I'm playing at a sectional and national level.
I do disagree about your statement that good , fast doubles is all about closing down the net and hoping your opponent lobs. That worked great when everyone used wood rackets and no one hit hard or with a lot of topspin and all the lobs were defensive. It's a different game now. Also, high school players and teams can thrive in this system.
In closing I think it's important to point out that in team sports, there can be many "systems" that are used. In basketball you can play a zone or man-to-man. The key is that you need to teach your system well, commit to it and get your players to buy into it. After 35+ years of teaching I have found my system to be the best for the people I teach and play with. Hopefully all of the questions can be answered as you see all of the articles that are going to be posted ( 11 in all). I love and apprecaite the give and take, let's keep it going!

[rossvalleyfilming]

Bill Previdi

That's me posting as Ross Valley. I will get it corrected

[llll]

i posted this in the other thread about your system
dont know which thread is the correct one to post it
no need to duplicate your response ill check both threads
my title was
POSSIBLE FLAW IN THE SYSTEM FOR ONE SCENARIO
if i understand your positioning correctly
the cross court player (helper)is deeper in the service box than his partner (hunter)
in the last video you show in your introduction article
the server has hit a short angled volley
and stayed deeper in the service box than his partner
it worked out in your video because the opponent tried to lob the net player closest to him couldnt get it high enough and the hunter put it away
HOWEVER
i was taught on a low wide ball
angle = angle and i would have hit a short angle reply
and your helper would have been out position for it
the way i was taught positioning in that scenario is
the helper (cross court player)would follow his ball and close the net to take the angle away
and his partner would go deeper in the service box to cover the lob
your thoughts???
by the way
great article and i agree with most everything....
looking forward to your advice on conquering the dreaded lobbers

[bluesconsort]

I also have been wondering about x-court back

I like the idea of staggered net positioning. However, first blush, I would have thought the up player would be x-court from the ball, and the back player on the line.

Why? The opponent's x-court shot moves away from the net player as the net player positions further back. The line shot moves straight ahead, so there is no penalty to playing further back, other than having to pick up low balls.

On serve, I can see two reasons for Mr Previdi's positioning
1) The server will end up near the service line for first volley, so will already be in desired position
2) The net player will be better positioned to close the center if closer to net

On return, if the returner chooses to follow the return to net, (1) above applies as well.

So, I prefer staggering net players x-court up, line back *but* I can see that there's a problem getting there.

[BillPrevidi]

Staggered net position

Bluesconsort. I respectfully disagree with your analysis of the staggered position. If the crosscourt player closes in, they are very vulnerable to the crosscourt lob. Even if the other player can run it down, they have to run diagonally rather than straight and will be in a terrible position. For that reason the person down the line will be forced to cheat back to cover the crosscourt lob and will be very vulnerable to balls at their feet.
If you think of the things you don't want in doubles, balls at your feet and balls over your head are two you want to avoid. In your scenario you're setting yourself up for both. In our scenario the Hunter is going to cover most of their line ( depending on the score, etc.) and help out on any crosscourt balls they can pick off. The Helper will cover sharp angles ( net strap) and eliminate crosscourt lobs from getting over their head. If the opponents go down the middle the Hunter has opportunity and the Helper has responsibility so there are two layers of defense and no confusion.
Also, the goal is for the helper to be able to angle the ball in front of their partner. This will allow them both to get closer as the opponent has to come up to get the low ball. Now both players are in a position to attack and be offensive.
I recently played a match in a USTA league. One of our opponents would hit his first volley to me and immediately get on top of the net. After the fourth crosscourt lob winner ( two topspin, two regular) i almost wanted to tell him to stop closing in ( I didn't). When I lobbed over his head he would yell "help" and his partner would sprint back for the lob. He was able to return two of them ( weakly) and we put both balls away.
I hope I've answered your question in relation to the system. Great question! Keep them coming!

[lobndropshot]

Hi Bill,

If you had to eliminate one shot in doubles what would it be?