Let's look at a forehand...

[stotty]

Here is James. Believe or not he is still 8 years old. He is tall, athletic and moves really well. His parents and background are superb. James has been playing around a year and was discovered in our grass roots problem where he has been coached by my assistant for the last six months. He has now suddenly become really keen.

I have now taken over James's coaching and he has had eight private lessons with me so far.

I have uploaded some clips of his forehand. This is an entirely natural shot for him and is his stronger wing. There are a lot of obvious things to work on but I am sure you will be impressed by his raw ability.

I would be most interested in what coaches on the forum think of James’s forehand. I don’t want to put thoughts in your minds...judge for yourselves and tell me what you think.

One of the things I insist on with all my coaches when it comes to talented children is to keep things low key. It’s critical not to hype them up.

The key questions are what do think of the shape of his forehand? And in what order would you go about tackling and developing the shot? I'm always curious as to what coaches tackle first in building a shot.

Take a look...

https://vimeo.com/121072669

https://vimeo.com/121073298

One of the key features of my junior programme are hitters. I have good players around 16 and 17 who hit with the up and coming tiddlers. They have to "adopt a player" and take him/her under their wing and hit with them. Works a treat.

[klacr]

King James

Stotty,

Thank you for sharing this with us. Always great to have a look at what other coaches are working with.

He is tall, he is athletic and he comes from good stock. You can't teach genetics can we?

Before I begin, Bravo to you for creating the "adopt a player" program at your club. I've done it at my club for the past 10 years and it has worked wonders in building players that love the game and creating what will become lifelong friends.

The shape of his forehand does not concern me too much as some of this will naturally evolve over time as he gets taller, stronger, contact point changes and more mature and his ability to wield the racquet becomes even easier. With that said, relative to many kids i see at this age, he's ahead of the curve. I would like to see his left arm more engaged during the preparation phase however. I do like how quick he is in the set up.

I love how loose he is. There is a fine line between loose and flexible, and out of control, mongoose on amphetamines. James is straddling that line but knowing he has some natural athleticism those movements and coordination will become more controlled.

It's the lower body that does concern me a bit. It never looks like he gets his feet fully underneath him when he's hitting. How is his serve? How about volleys? Just wondering
Stotty, keep up the great work and let this kid have fun with it. Something tells me that this young man is in great hands. I will contribute more and in greater detail when I have some time to gather some more thoughts.

Kyle LaCroix USPTA
Boca Raton

[stotty]

Good points..

The shape of his forehand does not concern me too much as some of this will naturally evolve over time as he gets taller, stronger, contact point changes and more mature and his ability to wield the racquet becomes even easier. With that said, relative to many kids i see at this age, he's ahead of the curve. I would like to see his left arm more engaged during the preparation phase however. I do like how quick he is in the set up.

I love how loose he is. There is a fine line between loose and flexible, and out of control, mongoose on amphetamines. James is straddling that line but knowing he has some natural athleticism those movements and coordination will become more controlled.

It's the lower body that does concern me a bit. It never looks like he gets his feet fully underneath him when he's hitting. How is his serve? How about volleys? Just wondering

Kyle LaCroix USPTA
Boca Raton

Good points. I am curious to know what coaches feel about his upside down racket face?

His serve is an issue right now and needs works. I have hardly worked on his forehand yet because of it. His volleys are good for his age. I may post his serve and some volleys depending how the thread goes.

When you look at James's forehand you see lots of the obvious things that need to be put right. The great thing is they look like they will be easy to put right. You can imagine this kid getting technically better really quick.

He has simply burst through my development programme in months. The adopt a player scheme works so well in this regard. Sometimes players can languish in group coaching otherwise, where looking for talent is like looking for a black cat in a dark room. Anyone who shows any talent gets put with a hitter where they get far more volume...things can start to happen then.

I don't want to say too much about James at this point. I would like to hear the thoughts of others first.

[10splayer]

This is one of the first things I'd do.

I would plant the mental image of turning inside a barrel. That is, keep his posture..Like many tikes, in a quest to swing harder, they start to lunge and throw themselves at the ball. Your job is to show him how to stabilize his core, and keep that axis of rotation vertically stacked.

[stotty]

Turning inside a barrel...

This is one of the first things I'd do.

I would plant the mental image of turning inside a barrel. That is, keep his posture..Like many tikes, in a quest to swing harder, they start to lunge and throw themselves at the ball. Your job is to show him how to stabilize his core, and keep that axis of rotation vertically stacked.

Yes making him more stable seems the most obvious place to start, doesn't it? He kind of swivels and flops around. Imagery is probably the best way to teach youngsters like James. Showing an image/clip of well balanced player might rub off.

[don_budge]

Eight year olds…thinking long term. The architect…designing the tennis player

This is one of the first things I'd do.

I would plant the mental image of turning inside a barrel. That is, keep his posture..Like many tikes, in a quest to swing harder, they start to lunge and throw themselves at the ball. Your job is to show him how to stabilize his core, and keep that axis of rotation vertically stacked.

He's running around and just hitting the ball. Sort of like Jiminy Glick cracks jokes. Around 40 seconds in the video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1rK_1xGp7cg

Great energy…great wheels. You love to find this in a kid who is on your court playing tennis.

It would be a great idea to begin to "plant" the mental images in Johnny's fragile eggshell mind. It's a perfect word as well. To plant…and nurture. Give him a six point image…much as Welby Van Horn illustrates in his forehand synopsis. Balance checkpoints. It's never too early to impress upon a tennis student that it is a game of energy and balance. You want to get him a bit more organized in his approach to the ball.

http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/teaching_systems/welby_vanhorn/true_master_forehand_balance_checkpoints/true_master_forehand_balance_checkpoints.html

You can modify these images to suit your interpretation as how best to emphasize the fundamental aspects of the forehand. Then let him play with it. It certainly doesn't have to be an ATP 3 right off the bat. He is afterall a child…children were meant to play. Not to be trained as professional tennis players. But on the other hand if you plant the fundamentals and they get the bug…just turn him loose. Let him evolve.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nCGTbqT-im8

Then there is this Bob Brett drill that was filmed at the Stockholm coaches symposium that I was at last year at this time. This has become a favorite drill of mine. It accomplishes a number of things.

1 It illustrates and emphasizes proper footwork. Weight on the front foot.

2 This drill gets the student moving forwards. This should be introduced at the very beginning of the education. Standing on the baseline is boring.

3 Balance is a key aspect of this drill as the student must move backwards and then move into the ball.

4 The Volley…and approach of the net.

5 It illustrates what hard work it is to move forwards and backwards as opposed to camping out on the baseline.

6 It will develop the specialized muscle groups that are useful specifically for tennis.

7 Watch the ball. Say bounce when the ball bounces. Say "5" at impact. Sensory recognition in combination with the mental images and engagement with the ball.

What you have in this little tyke is a block of granite or a blank slate or a blank canvass. What is the finished product going to look like? What do you see as the architect? What is the student capable of and what does their individual talents indicate about their future possibilities? This is what the coach asks himself when he sees a nice package of energy and hand to eye coordination.

I like these comments from Bob Brett about the coaches role.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jdtLFLtSJo4

At this young age it is best to think about the child. Developing a human being and not just a tennis player. Teach him to play piano and basketball. Develop all of those athletic skill sets that hockey_scout writes about by having him participating in different activities. Think long range finished product…install the fundamentals and let them blossom. Let him grow into his own game. The idea is to lay the foundation for the finished product. The goal is the men's game and not the 10 and unders. Think long term. It's all about preparation…not instantaneous results.

It is a long haul from eight years old to manhood. Plan accordingly. Give it to him when he is ready and don't rush the process. Nice looking kid with a good looking attitude. Giving him the opportunity to hit with the older kids is such a great idea. You have established a great lineage of players though out the years and this is the way programs flourish. With continuity…the elders passing it down to the young. The initiation process. Create the tribal mentality.

Just a few thoughts…the possibilities are infinite.

[tennis_chiro]

Set and hit!

I'm pretty much in agreement with Klacr and 10splayer. I particularly like 10splayer's image of hitting in a barrel (a traditional image for golfers). James looks like a talented kid for his age. I'm just love the fact that you use your "adopt a player" system to develop your youngsters. Terrific.

As you have pointed out, you don't want to stifle the child's creativity here, just give him a little guidance. He has a good natural stroke, but I would ask him to experiment with a couple of small things that would bring him closer to my own image of what he should be doing. However, I don't want to force anything down his throat; just experiment with it a little bit.

I think he has a slight pause in his swing a little too far back. I would like to see the same pause in the path of the racket head a little closer to his right shoulder, a little earlier in the swing path. I'd ask him to try moving his left hand in his ready position and initial move to the ball from the strings to wrapping around the actual throat of the racket. That would keep his right hand a little closer to his right shoulder in his initial move. He's got to decide the result "feels good" for the effort to really do any good.

In addition, I'd run him through my "angela's asteroids" drill. You don't have the benefit of my ball machine's spring loaded feeding, but you can start off with hand feeding. What I would be trying to accomplish is to force him to find his own more efficient "slot" to his swing because he would be rushed by the frequency of the balls. Next I continue the high rate of the feed, but move him just a bounce to his left and back to the original ball. Bounce back and forth between the two shots and he will find a "slot" that works for him without you really having to tell him how to do it. I've been amazed the last few years with how well this works with players of all levels in getting them to simplify their backswings and adopt swing paths right along the guidelines of ATP Type III including an SSC and a continuous loop from the end of the unit turn. Emphasize getting set and stable before he hits the ball even though he is moving and rushing and he should get the feel of the advantage of setting his weight solidly inside that barrel that 10splayer was referring to. Again, when I am doing this with a student, I have a good image of what I want them to come out with, but I don't want to verbalize that for them. I want them to find the shape on their own.

Finally, I have one thing I almost always find helps a little bit and it may or may not apply to James. I think it does, but I am not sure. That is the way he holds the racket. I'm not talkig about the position of his grip; I think that is fine. I am talking about where he feels the pressure in his hand during the swing prior to and during contact. I think he has gotten a little too much up into the top of his hand with the pressure primarily on the first metacarpal if I can get a little technical (the first finger). I want him to feel the pressure of the handle down in the lumbricales or the palm of the hand. I went over this in my article here on Tennisplayer. I'm not sure from the video, but I have the sense the racket is flopping around a little too much in his hand and this is the way I would address that.

Now, after we'd done that a little bit, I would slow everything down and ask him to pose for me in his followthrough position with all his weight on his left foot. Usually when I do this with students, they start hitting the ball solider and turn through the shot a little better. If he can feel that, then he will like it. Gotta have balance in any case.

Then, after he has a little better sense of his balance, I'd go back to the "asteroids" kind of drill which I'm sure you can feed from across the net effectively and see if he can hold that balance while finding his new "slot" but emphasizing "set, hit!".

I'll be very curious to see what you have him doing in about 6 months. D_B is right that he is just running around hitting the ball and having fun doing it; and that is so good and so important. Just have to instill a little discipline and balance without stiffling all that natural talent.

don

One other note: He is already following through to the left triceps with the racket shaft. To get him to go through the shot a little more and extend a little better, I would ask him to try to get his right wrist to touch his left triceps instead of just the racket shaft. That will force him to extend and turn through the shot a little more without you actually having to tell him to do so.

[don_budge]

Welby Van Horn ala Roger Federer…Mental imaging

It would be a great idea to begin to "plant" the mental images in Johnny's fragile eggshell mind. It's a perfect word as well. To plant…and nurture. Give him a six point image…much as Welby Van Horn illustrates in his forehand synopsis. Balance checkpoints. It's never too early to impress upon a tennis student that it is a game of energy and balance. You want to get him a bit more organized in his approach to the ball.

http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/teaching_systems/welby_vanhorn/true_master_forehand_balance_checkpoints/true_master_forehand_balance_checkpoints.html

You can modify these images to suit your interpretation as how best to emphasize the fundamental aspects of the forehand.

This would be my series of mental images that I would try to install into the little tykes noodle:

Mental Imaging...the Roger Federer six step forehand ala Welby Van Horn

http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/strokearchive/pro_men/roger_federer_09/rf_forehand/rf_fh_center/rf_fh_center.html?RFFHCenterNeutralStanceFront.mov

Step and Click #...

1…#22...the ready position. recognition that it is a forehand.

2…#32...show the racquet. strings at the ball. the strings are the eyes of the racquet.

3…#40...bounce. say bounce when the ball is on the ground. the ball is bouncing and the racquet strings are facing to the opposite fence. body sideways. completed unit turn from step #2 to step #3.

4…#44...get in position. the point between the backswing and the forward swing. the transition point.

5…#51...impact position. say “5” when the racquet meets the ball, weight committed to the ball. weight committed to the front foot. racquet and shoulders in virtually the same plane or in parallel planes. in golf…we say that the arms never get ahead of the shoulders until impact.

6…#54...follow through. weight just beginning to lift off of the front foot. note the incredible balance on the rear foot. all of the momentum swing after this click is only window dressing. #54 is the end of the swing.

Installing a six step fundamental swing concept gives some excellent "balance check points" and also gives you some real definite concepts with which to converse intelligently with the student. I can talk ad nauseum about each step about what is actually going on in the blink of an eye moment. Each step has cause and effect written all over them. It also greatly helps to give an actual demonstration, whether hitting against a wall of against a opponent.

The verbal exercise of saying "bounce" and associating that bounce with position #3 in the swing emphasizes early preparation of not only the racquet but the feet and body as well. Saying "5" when the student makes contact gives them the sensory sensation of being able to assume this all important position when making contact with the ball. It greatly assists the student to become "conscious" of their own body and the relationship with the ball in flight.

The verbal exercise is intimately involved with the visual senses and trying to coordinate the two is getting the student to focus on the ball. Getting the student to watch the ball. One of the things that separates Roger Federer from the rest of the herd is his uncanny ability to focus on the ball. To concentrate without wavering under any stress or pressure. A fundamental not to be underestimated.

[don_budge]

Snap shots…mental imaging

http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/strokearchive/pro_men/roger_federer_09/rf_forehand/rf_fh_center/rf_fh_center.html?RFFHCenterNeutralStanceFront.mov

Is it possible to take "snap shots" of the six positions for mental imaging that I wrote about in my previous post here...in the Federer forehand clip and post them? Can someone help me out here.

[don_budge]

Retreating…postion #2

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nCGTbqT-im8

When the student is retreating after the volley I have them retreat in the position #2 (showing the racquet face to the ball) in the Federer/Van Horn six step imaging and with the body sideways to the net and using side steps.

http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/strokearchive/pro_men/roger_federer_09/rf_forehand/rf_fh_center/rf_fh_center.html?RFFHCenterNeutralStanceFront.mov

From position #2 to position #3 is the unit turn that they make going backwards or as they position themselves to go forwards. Unit turn completes as the ball bounces.

[don_budge]

Inside the barrel…golf on the run

This is one of the first things I'd do.

I would plant the mental image of turning inside a barrel. That is, keep his posture..Like many tikes, in a quest to swing harder, they start to lunge and throw themselves at the ball. Your job is to show him how to stabilize his core, and keep that axis of rotation vertically stacked.

I particularly like 10splayer's image of hitting in a barrel (a traditional image for golfers).

Turning inside the barrel…10splayer is a golfer if I am not mistaken.

http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/strokearchive/pro_men/roger_federer_09/rf_forehand/rf_fh_center/rf_fh_center.html?RFFHCenterNeutralStanceFront.mov

This guy is pretty much swinging inside the barrel…isn't he? Vertically stacked. It's a game of energy and balance…much of it played outside the control limits. Roger Federer is perfectly poised to take any kind of swing that he wants and what does he elect for? The standard issue…perfect balance. He's the living proof…as well as being the gold standard.

[stotty]

Thanku from Stotty

Installing a six step fundamental swing concept gives some excellent "balance check points" and also gives you some real definite concepts with which to converse intelligently with the student. I can talk ad nauseum about each step about what is actually going on in the blink of an eye moment. Each step has cause and effect written all over them. It also greatly helps to give an actual demonstration, whether hitting against a wall of against a opponent.

I think he has a slight pause in his swing a little too far back. I would like to see the same pause in the path of the racket head a little closer to his right shoulder, a little earlier in the swing path. I'd ask him to try moving his left hand in his ready position and initial move to the ball from the strings to wrapping around the actual throat of the racket. That would keep his right hand a little closer to his right shoulder in his initial move. He's got to decide the result "feels good" for the effort to really do any good.

The shape of his forehand does not concern me too much as some of this will naturally evolve over time as he gets taller, stronger, contact point changes and more mature and his ability to wield the racquet becomes even easier. With that said, relative to many kids i see at this age, he's ahead of the curve. I would like to see his left arm more engaged during the preparation phase however. I do like how quick he is in the set up.

This is one of the first things I'd do.

I would plant the mental image of turning inside a barrel. That is, keep his posture..Like many tikes, in a quest to swing harder, they start to lunge and throw themselves at the ball. Your job is to show him how to stabilize his core, and keep that axis of rotation vertically stacked.

Thanks for all the feedback here.

I think creating a firm platform for James is the best way to start. I showed James a clip of Djokovic from the archive this weekend to try and create a mental image in his head of balance and posture. I want to create an overall image to see what he takes a way from it. He immediately started shaping up like Djokovic in the clubhouse once I had showed him the clip. He likes the model.

I will take care of the stall and add on the bells and whistles later. I'll keep it real basic for now. Half the club want to adopt him so he's in for lots of practice.

I think I will post James again in 3 to 6 months time to show you all where we are at. I think James is a fine prospect and certain to be good tennis player even if all the coaches left the room. How good only time will tell.

I also wanted to post a youngster on the forum to show someone else it's not a big deal. I posted James on a windy day after just a couple of minutes warming up...straight off the bat...just one take. That's all you lot need to see to make technical judgements.

I thought all the posts were great...polite and helpful. No matter how good I may become as a coach, I will always treasure second opinions from guys like you.

[EdWeiss]

Your student's great personality just jumps out from the video.

All of the comments you received above from the contributors about having him be more on balance seem right on to me. Here is a favorite Welby Van Horn drill which he might enjoy and works on that skill:

The drill set-up: Student is at the baseline and the coach is feeding him balls. Coach is at his own baseline. This is a pure fed-ball drill.

The drill: the coach hits (feeds) the ball to the student and, as the coach is hitting the feed, the coach calls out loud to the student how many times the ball should bounce on the student's side of the court before the student hits the shot. If the coach calls out "one" that means the student lets the ball bounce once and then hits the shot (i.e., just like regular tennis). If the coach calls out "two", the student must let the ball bounce twice and then must hit the shot. Same idea if he coach calls out "three", "four" or "five". Please note that when you (as coach) are feeding the three, four or five bounce ones, you will need to hit it fairly high but short, otherwise the three, four or five bounces will take the player all the way into the back fence.


The student is instructed that when he finishes the groundstroke, the student must be perfectly still and on balance with the weight (if he uses a square stance) on the front foot. This can be challenging in this drill because the student must both judge (and move) where the ball will be after the designated number of bounces and then finish on balance. The drill works on both balance and coordination/ball judgment.

Hopefully your student will like the drill.

[bottle]

One of my favorites, Maxine, is about to quit soccer just to go with theater and tennis. She and I will be doing this one. Thanks so much.