Interactive Forum: March 2015: The Racket Edge and Internal Shoulder Rotation

[johnyandell]

In recent years a common "advanced" serving tip has been to approach the ball as if you were to hit it with the edge of the racket frame. In the February issue, we saw that the turning of the arm and racket face in the upward swing through internal shoulder rotation was a major source of racket speed. How to resolve that apparent contradiction?

Take a look at 3 elite servers in 500 frames per second video. What is the relationship between the on the straightening of the elbow, the so-called on edge approach, and the turning of the hand arm and racket through the rotation of the upper arm in the shoulder joint. One other fact to consider—the movement from the racket drop to the contact as shown here takes about 2/10s of a second.

[johnyandell]

Quicktime version

[tennis_chiro]

Gotta show the next 2/10's of a second

It's critical that you show the next two-tenths of a second where the racket face moves an additional 90 degrees going the full 180 from edge to edge for the best servers. I have a student right now who does a great job doing exactly what is shown here, but he stops the internal rotation without completing that other 90 degrees and the racket face continues to face the target and then the ground rather than the side fence to the right side of the court.

don

[gzhpcu]

Seems to me that the abrupt straightening of the elbow, so that elbow and upper arm are in line, helps contribute to the acceleration of the propeller-like torsion of the racket around the axis of the arm.

[johnyandell]

Don,

That's been covered many times on the site (and in almost any Fed serve clip). The point here is the mechanism and timing of the motion upward--when and how the internal rotation starts.

[vrc10s]

It looks like the internal shoulder rotation starts just before the arm finishes straitening. Fed's arm seems to have the most bend as the shoulder rotations starts. It looks to me like Fed is hitting a spin serve as his racquet face in not as "square" at contact.

[vrc10s]

eyes

As a side note, look how early ARod and John's eyes come down off the ball. Fed keeps is eyes up a little longer.

[don_budge]

Cause and effect...

It's critical that you show the next two-tenths of a second where the racket face moves an additional 90 degrees going the full 180 from edge to edge for the best servers. I have a student right now who does a great job doing exactly what is shown here, but he stops the internal rotation without completing that other 90 degrees and the racket face continues to face the target and then the ground rather than the side fence to the right side of the court.

don

It is also critical to show the two-tenths of a second before…perhaps from the point where the backswing becomes the forwards swing…before the loop behind the server's back. It is the loop that causes this action or at least it "sets it up". The two-tenths of a second after is what this rotation produces. It's a most interesting sequence of events and not that easy for the student to understand. This little pearl of a clip is all about cause and effect and that is what is most effective in emphasizing the selected action. Wherefore and why.

Wonderful illustrations…look at that tiny racquet of Roger Federer's.

[bottle]

Don't Throw a Hawk

The first Chas. Stumpfel article has internal rotation starting real late. If it starts late enough the frame will just miss and the racket will still be a bit on edge, which equates with spin as opposed to hitting the ball too flat, equates also with the extra 90 degrees that tennis_chiro points to, no?

If the internal rotation starts too early one hits a decel although one could next change one's preferred game to throwing a hawk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQoOg74bnFw).

Seems to me that the abrupt straightening of the elbow, so that elbow and upper arm are in line, helps contribute to the acceleration of the propeller-like torsion of the racket around the axis of the arm.

To unanesthetize or keep the triceps muscle anesthetized just then-- that is the question? We use words and logic but the subject is pure mysticism: "Wow, that was a good serve-- where did it come from?"

[johnyandell]

So there are two things here: the elbow extension--and the turning of the racket, what Chas correctly calls internal shoulder rotation.

But I like to call it hand, arm and racket rotation, because that's what the shoulder rotation causes.

It seems to me that Isner may start the bulk of the rotation of the racket face latest--when the arm is almost straight. Federer is the soonest, and Roddick is in between.

But then Isner and Roddick both have deeper drops.

Of course they may be some--looks to be some--internal shoulder rotation before the major turning of the face.

The fascinating thing is this is a 2/10ths of second event. So what do you teach? My view is that you teach the hand rotation. The hard fast hand rotation--and as Don noted--teach that continuing with the extension with the racket turned over.

What? Don't teach swinging on edge?? I think that happens as part of the hand emphasis. If you are turning the hand and taking it up to the ball the elbow has to extend. If you just focus on the edge or emphasize it too much I think it's like teaching wrist snap. Focusing on a factor that retards something more fundamental. In this case the full 180 degree rotation.

[stotty]

I think we get into awfully difficult territory when we try to teach this kind of thing. Don't the best do it anyway without any help from us? Sure seems that way to me.

I sometimes wonder if our understanding of tennis has shot way ahead of our ability to teach what we are learning.

[johnyandell]

Hey if the shot looks right and passes through the key positions then no worries. So many players don't however. And some of the reasons can be ideas like hit the ball with the racket edge...

[arturohernandez]

I spent a lot of time struggling with my serve. I started in late 2010 and then kept at it for about two years. But I didn't stop there. It still felt like something was not quite right.

I tried all kinds of things including:

Serving from the drop
Serving from the trophy
Throwing and serving in succession
Serving really slow
Serving with only three fingers (loosening the pink and ring finger)
Serving with the edge

After a long journey I finally realized that I did not really understand how to throw.

What I didn't understand was the role of shoulder rotation.

The problem is that most people pair a motor program with a particular object in the world.

The racket itself almost grafts itself onto a certain limb movement.

The racket also becomes an extension of peoples bodies.

If I tell someone to serve with edge of the racket it is really easy to misinterpret it as serving with my hand sideways as if I am trying to karate chop the ball.

Note that I could do this and not rotate my hand at all or even minimally.

So what has helped me recently has been two things.

Throw balls and exaggerate the role of the shoulder by finishing with my palm facing away from my body.

The other is to imagine that I am cutting over the top of the ball rather than trying to hit the ball with my racket or the strings.

By teaching my body to exaggerate the finish and then imaging that I am hitting the top suddenly the serve began to feel different.

My nine-year-old daughter told me the other day that her serve felt very weird. She felt like she was hitting the ball wrong.

I had asked her to use a mild eastern backhand grip (or strong continental). I can't really say exactly what because the small rackets have really small grips.

And her serve was spinning nicely. It was not flat and not at all pancake like.

I have also done a lot of follow through exaggeration when we play catch so that she sees me flipping my hand out.

I never mentioned the edge and I see this more as a result of trying to turn the hand outwards which of course starts at the shoulder.

But I think that most people don't know an advanced throwing motion.

So I wonder if the best way to improve the serve is to not use the racket at all.

Why not try to mimic an advanced throw and then use that to build better serve mechanics.

Of course, this is not necessary for those who have good throwing mechanics naturally or by early instruction.

But I think if you ask people to throw footballs or baseballs they will not have the fundamentals of throwing which are clearly shown in the videos below.

Just form imitation. I am not expecting anyone to throw as a fast as a pro.

But we can try to imitate them much more easily because we are manipulating our bodies directly.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iw48vUo8hGk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hf5UPnQx9Rw

[gzhpcu]

Good post arturohernandez! I would just add that the throwing motion should be aimed up and not forward. This throwing approach is also used by Pat Dougherty I believe...

[johnyandell]

AH, Phil,

Agreed on the throwing. Pat may use the high throw and so do I... I ask players to throw a tennis ball as high as they can and land in the service box.