Kozlov vs Donaldson in Memphis

[tennis_chiro]

Just got done watching a few minutes of the opening games between the two young American wildcards in the first round of Memphis. Kozlov is the reigning Orange Bowl champ who just turned 17 and Donaldson is somewhat higher ranked (180) rookie pro who turned 18 last fall and won the Maui Challenger last week.

They are playing on indoor hardcourts. And yet, I can't deny the feeling when they step up to serve, especially Koslov, that they just want to get the serve over with so they can get on to what they really consider the important part of the game, hitting their groundstrokes. Despite all the jumping and bending and contortions to put force into their service action, fundamentally their body language projects, at least to me, that hitting the serve is just something they would rather not have to deal with. There is no sense whatsoever that they are in control of the point when they step up to the line to serve; it's just their turn to start the point. Sure, Donaldson is a little better, but he is a couple of inches taller than Koslov at 6' 2" and should be dominant with the ball in his hands.

Pretty sad. Not a feeling you ever got watching Gonzales, McEnroe, Sampras or Federer; certainly not on indoor hardcourts!

don

[tennis_chiro]

Sure enough. Through the first 7 games with the match on serve at 3-4, Koslov to serve, there have been 4 service breaks. They are both making less than 40% of their first serves. They would both much rather return.

don

[tennis_chiro]

Sure there are some amazing shots, but it's really not that much fun to watch.
Now it's 6 breaks in 9 games as Donaldson tries to "hold return" for the set as he is up 5 games to 4 as Koslov gets set to serve at 4-5! Ridiculous!!

don

[GeoffWilliams]

VEry typical that the juniors don't work on serving at all, just ground strokes.

[tennis_chiro]

Clearly, Donaldson has the edge. Koslov managed to "break return" to get to 5-5, but then Donaldson won the next 5 games to go up 0-3 in the second set. Donaldson has a big edge in his Brian Gordon ATP Type III 2hbh which he hits with great accuracy and power. However, if these two are a large part of the future of American tennis, we are in big trouble. If you can't look like you are supposed to win the game when you are serving on a pretty fast indoor hard court, something is dreadfully wrong. That's not Murray or Djokovic returning on the other side of the net.

I had a lesson yesterday with one of my 18 y.o. students. He is what TennisRecruiting.net calls a 1-star. He played another 1-star in a match over the weekend and lost 2 and 3; says it was a close match. If he hopes to have a chance to play college tennis, even at a non-scholarship Div III level for any kind of a decent program, he needs to become a 3-star. Tall order, but I'm trying to get him to see that if he learns consistency and accuracy with the service power he already has, he could be winning all the matches he is losing like the one he played this weekend. To do so, he needs to be practicing his serve... a lot. So I asked if he practiced his serve every day. He hit 3 baskets last week (60-70 balls). I said he better be hitting at least a basket or two every day, on top of serves he hits playing matches. He has it completely within his power to make his serve a weapon that moves him up a couple of levels. This is not like learning to hit a passing shot on the run or be a consistent automaton. He now has a decent motion and enough power to be effective, but he has to perfect it. He really needs to hit at least 2, more likely 3 baskets at least 5 days a week. In about 20 weeks, and 20,000 practice serves, he can be at least a 2-star on the strength of no more than the improved service effectiveness. And the power and accuracy will get better with the practice as well (as long as I keep him within decent parameters of biomechanics).

When I was learning to play, this kind of practice was more or less normal for anyone who really wanted to excel. Now it is like asking a kid to grow a third arm. I know of numerous kids with courts in their backyards who are unable to muster the motivation to go out and practice their serves. The kid I am talking about didn't have a court, but I know many who do and don't take advantage of the opportunity to hit a basket every morning.

So Koslov didn't get another game. Donaldson did a little better and only dropped 3 points on serve in the second set. I still think he needs a lot of work on his mental approach to serving. Koslov needs an overhaul.

I have no idea where that kind of help will come from for either of these players. Donaldson looked good against Koslov once he settled down, but I don't think the basic service mentality will hold up against top 50 ATP players. And I doubt he will get the chance to really develop the parts of his game that he could develop at this point. I think he will hit a wall unless he finds someone to help him step back and correct his shortcomings. Too bad he's not going to college for a year or two. They are showing him already having won over $100,000 and having turned pro last year so I guess college is out. He's won a challenger and now his ranking is high enough to get him into qualis on the main tour and that is probably where he will go. He'll win a lot of matches and move up to the top 100 in the next year, if not sooner, but if he doesn't make major changes, in the words of that lady NBA ref to Chris Paul last week, "Uh uh!"

don

[gzhpcu]

That is why I posted this video to Tony Trabert's gorgeous serve:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7DkxpHHnjdA

No unnecessary contortions or gyrations. Also, by not having been allowed to jump, you see the play of the upper body.

[hockeyscout]

Clearly, Donaldson has the edge. Koslov managed to "break return" to get to 5-5, but then Donaldson won the next 5 games to go up 0-3 in the second set. Donaldson has a big edge in his Brian Gordon ATP Type III 2hbh which he hits with great accuracy and power. However, if these two are a large part of the future of American tennis, we are in big trouble. If you can't look like you are supposed to win the game when you are serving on a pretty fast indoor hard court, something is dreadfully wrong. That's not Murray or Djokovic returning on the other side of the net.

I had a lesson yesterday with one of my 18 y.o. students. He is what TennisRecruiting.net calls a 1-star. He played another 1-star in a match over the weekend and lost 2 and 3; says it was a close match. If he hopes to have a chance to play college tennis, even at a non-scholarship Div III level for any kind of a decent program, he needs to become a 3-star. Tall order, but I'm trying to get him to see that if he learns consistency and accuracy with the service power he already has, he could be winning all the matches he is losing like the one he played this weekend. To do so, he needs to be practicing his serve... a lot. So I asked if he practiced his serve every day. He hit 3 baskets last week (60-70 balls). I said he better be hitting at least a basket or two every day, on top of serves he hits playing matches. He has it completely within his power to make his serve a weapon that moves him up a couple of levels. This is not like learning to hit a passing shot on the run or be a consistent automaton. He now has a decent motion and enough power to be effective, but he has to perfect it. He really needs to hit at least 2, more likely 3 baskets at least 5 days a week. In about 20 weeks, and 20,000 practice serves, he can be at least a 2-star on the strength of no more than the improved service effectiveness. And the power and accuracy will get better with the practice as well (as long as I keep him within decent parameters of biomechanics).

When I was learning to play, this kind of practice was more or less normal for anyone who really wanted to excel. Now it is like asking a kid to grow a third arm. I know of numerous kids with courts in their backyards who are unable to muster the motivation to go out and practice their serves. The kid I am talking about didn't have a court, but I know many who do and don't take advantage of the opportunity to hit a basket every morning.

So Koslov didn't get another game. Donaldson did a little better and only dropped 3 points on serve in the second set. I still think he needs a lot of work on his mental approach to serving. Koslov needs an overhaul.

I have no idea where that kind of help will come from for either of these players. Donaldson looked good against Koslov once he settled down, but I don't think the basic service mentality will hold up against top 50 ATP players. And I doubt he will get the chance to really develop the parts of his game that he could develop at this point. I think he will hit a wall unless he finds someone to help him step back and correct his shortcomings. Too bad he's not going to college for a year or two. They are showing him already having won over $100,000 and having turned pro last year so I guess college is out. He's won a challenger and now his ranking is high enough to get him into qualis on the main tour and that is probably where he will go. He'll win a lot of matches and move up to the top 100 in the next year, if not sooner, but if he doesn't make major changes, in the words of that lady NBA ref to Chris Paul last week, "Uh uh!"

don

Don: I'd say its about 500,000 to 750,000 in coaching fees to take Kozlov to the level he's at now. What do you think of the value of service he's received?

[don_budge]

American Serving…the pits of the world!

I would love to have the opportunity to tweak that service motion of his and discuss his serving tactics. klacr...any possibility of you intervening on my behalf?

I was sitting in the stands at the French Open and was watching Stefan Koslov play a round in the junior championships. As luck would have it I was sitting practically next to his coach. I introduced myself and engaged in a bit of coaching conversation with this fellow who was listening but he couldn't get out of his own way to appreciate what I was saying to him.

I asked him who Stefan was modelling his service after. He said nobody in particular. Some flunky sitting next to the coach volunteered that Stefan was modelling his serve off of his coach. It was just a sort of suck up response for the coach to inflate himself with.

Sitting there in the Parisian sunshine and judging from the video footage that Stotty supplied us in an earlier thread titled "Koslov" it was the serve that to me was noticeably lacking in terms of making the transition to the men's game. It didn't appear from the coach that I talked to that any particular emphasis was being talked about on his service game…but that cannot be right…can it? I had much the same thoughts as you do tennis_chiro regarding his service game. The same can be said for American tennis in general where traditionally the big serve was part of any tennis players arsenal. But alas…ever since the coaching was hijacked by "you know who" the serving criteria for American tennis players has dropped off of the table. Davy Jones locker is more like it.

[stotty]

Serve now versus at 15...

Interesting thread...

What is Koslov's serve looking like now? I have a clip of Koslov's serve when he was 15 to compare it to. It would be nice to know if it has developed or if it has stayed the same? It wasn't a terrible serve by any means for a kid of 15. But it wasn't an easy motion. He had to muscle it to get any pace.

I'l surf around later to and see if I can dig up a side by side comparison...

[johnyandell]

Here he is in Future Stars Easter Bowl 2012:

http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/future_stars/easter_bowl/2012/boys/18s/easter_2012_boys_18s.html?Stefan%20Kozlov.mov

[stotty]

Here is the latest one I could find. He drops his head just before contact in this clip.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=csCr1QUB32c

Here is the clip I took at Wimbledon when he was 15.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ImRXnS_7eJY&feature=youtu.be

And John's 2012 clip which he posted 20 seconds before I posted my two clips.

http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/future_stars/easter_bowl/2012/boys/18s/easter_2012_boys_18s.html?Stefan%20Kozlov.mov

So now you have all three clips in one place together. Spot the difference....

[hockeyscout]

Wow, what a child physically. I am amazed with these 15 to 18 year old tennis players. I guess it isn't a sport that breeds farm boys from villages.

[hockeyscout]

Here is the latest one I could find. He drops his head just before contact in this clip.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=csCr1QUB32c

Here is the clip I took at Wimbledon when he was 15.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ImRXnS_7eJY&feature=youtu.be

And John's 2012 clip which he posted 20 seconds before I posted my two clips.

http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/future_stars/easter_bowl/2012/boys/18s/easter_2012_boys_18s.html?Stefan%20Kozlov.mov

So now you have all three clips in one place together. Spot the difference....

Now, the question is Slotty, what imbalance is causing this issue, and what small muscle groups is he not firing specifically and how can it be rectified?

[tennis_chiro]

Missing the point

I think everyone is missing the point I was trying to bring up, except maybe D_B. I have a lot of issues I would try to take up with actual technique of either of these players, and, of course, I think I am the most qualified person to make those corrections, but that doesn't matter (and I will never get that chance anyway).

What is really obvious to me is the mental approach to the service game is all wrong. Regardless of the technique, a world class player should be able to generate an offensive mentality when he is putting his serve in play. Along with that mentality go tactics and strategy. Technique is just kind of taken for granted (mistakenly), but any world class pro feels like he is in control when he is puttin his serve in play, unless he is playing someone at the Murray/Djokovic/Ferrer level.

These guys kind of look like they would rather be returning. That's just wrong. There has to be an entire paradigm shift in the underlying mental makeup of these players, regardless of whether they improve their technique or just get better at doing what they already know how to produce. You have to be thinking about how your serve is going to lead you to the next shot in your sequence and sooner rather than latter to a chance to use the bg weapon in your arsenal.

I think that mindset is really missing. And that is a shame.

don

[don_budge]

You can be rest assured...

I think everyone is missing the point I was trying to bring up, except maybe D_B. I have a lot of issues I would try to take up with actual technique of either of these players, and, of course, I think I am the most qualified person to make those corrections, but that doesn't matter (and I will never get that chance anyway).

What is really obvious to me is the mental approach to the service game is all wrong. Regardless of the technique, a world class player should be able to generate an offensive mentality when he is putting his serve in play. Along with that mentality go tactics and strategy.

I think that mindset is really missing. And that is a shame.

don

Your message hasn't been lost on me. Or perhaps you haven't read my 2,445 posts in the past that are regularly lambasting the modern game of tennis for what it really is. It is a poor facsimile of the real thing.

A strong gripped forehand and a two hand backhand. A mediocre service motion solely designed for power. That is more or less my interpretation of the modern paradigm that has evolved since the advent of the new equipment…circa 1984.

Your analysis of the modern serving game is spot on. Remember my letter to Robin Söderling's father? No? Good…I'll repost it. One of my opening salvo's in exposing the modern game for what it is.

Stefan Koslov looks disorganized from the moment he steps up to the line. Sloppy setup…whimsical backswing…no idea about tactics.

When any classic tennis player stepped to the line to serve he had passed through a doorway where he had made the instantaneous mental preparation to put the ball in play. Among the concerns were…the score...the percentage serve placement, spin and speed…the relative strengths and weaknesses of his opponents return game…the possible return…the servers tactical possibilities…perhaps room for one swing thought.

Does it look like any of that is going through Stefan Koslov's mind? I don't think so and that was what I was more or less getting at when I quizzed his coach at the French Open. His coach was noticeably distressed by my question and tried to be so engrossed in the meaningless match that he was playing instead of engaging in a conversation that may have changed the philosophy of his approach to coaching the serve. As it was on that afternoon…I didn't really see any discernible approach at all.

Nothing that would suggest…Gonzales, McEnroe, Sampras, Federer or any of the other great servers. Nothing. No trademark that had Koslov written all over it. The great tennis players that I mention all put their mark on the game and one way of doing so was a distinctive flair on the serve…which used to be such an incredibly important facet of the game. Like you said…Koslov more or less uses a rather half hearted attempt, in general overall appearance anyways, to put the ball in play. That may be exaggerating a bit…but from the classic tennis theorist's point of view this is nothing to be underestimated. The importance of perfect motion and accompanying tactics.

This thing that you are talking about is so far removed from the modern paradigm of tennis that people will be looking at you cross-eyed if you bring it up in circles that are less than fully committed students of the game. I get you tennis_chiro and as usual my respect for your discussion goes without saying. You've hit a home run without even trying. Much like hitting an ace at an important point in a tennis match. Just relax…trust your perfect motion…take dead aim…badda bing.