The Myth of the Recovery Step: Pro Backhands

[hockeyscout]

Yes, that's the part I don't agree with. For one thing, the ball is 50 yards down the fairway at the time the hips begin to turn again. It would have zero impact. As DB states, there is momentum though, and that needs to dissipate.

Rory is one of the most extreme examples (least that Ive seen) of the hips almost stopping completely..In fact if you look at his right butt cheek, it appears he's pulling his right leg back...Not rotating it.

So the equation (simplified) would be (in the downswing) weight shift (bump) from right to left leg...followed by rotation around left leg (internal?) while the right leg is (at some stage) used to slow down the rate of rotation...I think there are mechanical similarities between this and a two handed backhand, for instance. In other words the rear hip isn't really "firing" into the shot as much as one would think, but used to control over rotation..

This "rotation" of the rear hip, (as I understand Tennis Chiro's position) is the major impetus in a two hander..Don't think I agree, but would love to entertain other thoughts...

Interesting reading here gentleman.

First off, I have yet to meet a hockey player who is not a golfer.

It’s golf for us every spring and summer, and the majority of us are 5.5, the phrase you use in tennis (in Canada at least) and could be better if we invested the time into it or bothered even studying the game (which most of us can’t be bothered with as we came up in a hockey system where we learned unconsciously how to play the game from dad, uncles and local coaches who were all pro prospects back in their day and true experts in their fields).

I am a rather good golfer however I just hate a sport where you can’t beat on someone and inflict physical pain. That's just my mentality though.

The only similarity between tennis and golf is the management of the sweet spot. The feet and hips are entirely different, and there is virtually no correlation between the two sports.

This is our methodology, however, tennis coaches in the current paradigm (day and age) may see the crossover with how they teach the game.

Golf is a sport we play virtually ZERO attention to as there are no elements from it that fit into our skill setups in ANY way, shape or form.

I’d never let any tennis player golf, EVER, as it’d screw up my neurology and skill set work.

Granted, I have not done any of the setups you’ve all done with your tennis players, so maybe don_budge’s theory of tennis is golf on the run might work for one of his trained students, however, if we did it we’d get worse overnight, and I’d have to spend a long time ironing out all the bad wrinkles it created.

[don_budge]

My Thoughts…on "The Myth of the Recovery Step"

Would love to hear your thoughts on "The Myth of the Recovery Step: Pro Backhands"

Thanks 10splayer, tennis_chiro, Stotty and klacr. An absolutely wonderful meaningful discussion followup on an exquisite article by johnyandell about "The Myth of the Recovery Step".

The comments and analogies taken in their context combine with the article seamlessly. It enhances the whole package…making it an educational experience. Confirming and validating.

[10splayer]

Interesting reading here gentleman.

First off, I have yet to meet a hockey player who is not a golfer.

It’s golf for us every spring and summer, and the majority of us are 5.5, the phrase you use in tennis (in Canada at least) and could be better if we invested the time into it or bothered even studying the game (which most of us can’t be bothered with as we came up in a hockey system where we learned unconsciously how to play the game from dad, uncles and local coaches who were all pro prospects back in their day and true experts in their fields).

I am a rather good golfer however I just hate a sport where you can’t beat on someone and inflict physical pain. That's just my mentality though.

The only similarity between tennis and golf is the management of the sweet spot. The feet and hips are entirely different, and there is virtually no correlation between the two sports.

This is our methodology, however, tennis coaches in the current paradigm (day and age) may see the crossover with how they teach the game.

Golf is a sport we play virtually ZERO attention to as there are no elements from it that fit into our skill setups in ANY way, shape or form.

I’d never let any tennis player golf, EVER, as it’d screw up my neurology and skill set work.

Granted, I have not done any of the setups you’ve all done with your tennis players, so maybe don_budge’s theory of tennis is golf on the run might work for one of his trained students, however, if we did it we’d get worse overnight, and I’d have to spend a long time ironing out all the bad wrinkles it created.

Why would hockey players tend to be good golfers?

[hockeyscout]

Why would hockey players tend to be good golfers?

A hockey player has THE BEST understanding of how to control - use the sweet spot of any piece of sports equipment.

That is the magic bullet. Nothing else.

You could take most NHL players, and in a matter of three practices teach them to play golf - hockey at a precocious level of play due to their immaculate timing and ability to control the head of their racket and club (among a few other things).

Their is something to be said about the focus level of hockey players as well.

The focus level of a hockey player is off the charts. If you lose focus you're going to get hit, beat or simply lose track of your time and space, and that is dangerous, and you will get hurt.

A hockey player is always consciously aware of the sweet spot of his stick. You need to be, as you don't want to poke a guy in the eye, hurt a teammate, and again, it takes a lot of conscious effort to give and take a pass, shoot and move from A to B carrying a big stick which always needs to be moved properly, and in synch with your hips, collarbone, rib cage and feet. The grips you need to use with the hockey stick, and the small sweet spot you need to manipulate the puck with takes MANY years to develop and they are very concise. You also need setups, as hockey is a transitional game, and you need to flow into your next, accelerate into offensive and defensive holes (windows) and do a flipping unbelievable amount of skill sets under physical pressure (hitting).

You also can't second guess yourself to much, and get involved in these mind games tennis - golf players do (they have nothing else to do sometimes except get nervous and second guess themselves - tennis players and golfers that is).

I imagine a lot of these players in hockey became good golfers so quickly because the level of focused concentration you carry over into golf is a totally different mental game (and in my opinion, its more effective for tennis, and golf). Clearly, tennis players do not have the same mentality as hockey players.

The second reason hockey players tend to be very good golfers is the team social aspect of it. It's a team bonding, buddy's do it, ride the carts, drink the beer, share hockey stories, get away from the public and go out and hit. So, the guys play a lot of it, and, well, they get good.

However, you could not take a hockey player and put him in as a PGA golfer because he has hockey habits and neurology which should not be changed. After retirement, their are a lot of technical things that could be changed, and I'd think if their was every a super serious dude who was relatively injury free (no often BTW) they could get to a world class level in three years.

Really 10splayer, golf and hockey are radically different sports. When I used to golf I'd hate how my hands in hockey felt when I got back on the ice.

The European hockey players are all soccer and tennis guys, and most are pretty good as well. Soccer and tennis are better mixes for hockey players, and as a coach I prefer my kids play those two sports as they are better for skill set development. I think summer golf really hurt our Canadian kids in hockey, and it shows in technical skillets where the European and Russian kids (tennis and soccer) and American (basketball, baseball and football) are better developed in terms of raw athletics.

The advantage the Canadian kids have is they are mentally superior, more powerful in terms of raw shooting (snapshot, snapshot, backhand and wrist shot), schooled in how to play the game (hockey IQ from mom, dad, uncles, brothers ECT who have played) and have had to deal with harsh elements (cold, storms, long travel and disciplined coaching) - Canucks are always able to win big when their talent level isn't on par with other countries.

So golf: why are hockey players good at it? Well in a nutshell, they know how to control the sweet spot (and thus are able to overcome bad technique easier than most), focus, concentration and fanatical devotion to do it day in and day out.

Comparing a static sport (golf) to a highly dynamic - more technical sport (tennis or hockey) isn't appropriate as the skill sets can simply not be carried over in my opinion.

[richberman]

Love the article as it's great ammo when discussing a local head pro with students. Now you're the bearer of the bad news, not me or my coaches.
Thanks John and sorry I've been remiss posting. Tennisplayer.net remains a very important resources for Rich's Tennis School.
Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays!!
Rich

[gzhpcu]

Merry Christmas to you too, Rich.

Hope you will join the circle of posters!

[bottle]

Snapshot. A new term.

[hockeyscout]

Snapshot. A new term.

Snap shot is a hockey term, and its a VERY complex shot.

[johnyandell]

Rich,
Welcome back. Happy holidays. Didn't you mean the bearer of good news??