Project J

[EdWeiss]

Don_budge

Steve: I really liked your statement: "The emphasis of your program…as it is with my program is not one of producing professional tennis players but to teach people, young and old, that tennis is a game to be played for a lifetime. A game to be enjoyed in your leisure time…if you are blessed to have any."

[10splayer]

That makes me laugh. You're the guy who said I should have know better to engage a tennis parent in a discussion LOL. I really am sorry for not buying your cool-aid about your player in the video being an athlete. It quiet simply was not up to par. You're very good at manipulation of reality. I can't say I am impressed with this Aren't I A Grand Tennis coach who has produced D1 college tennis players attitude, and I know more than moms and dads who are coaches, black-belts, athletes and certified in the important disciplines needed to develop all-around athletes. Give me a break, please.

I think you're under the impression I care or respect what you have to say. I read your drivel and just laugh.


It's apparent to me, that your participation here is a lot more about you, then your daughter. You're not some sort of genius! Hello! You're the father of an 8 year old girl that shows some talent...That's it..Your "methods" have produced nothing thus far. It's a long road from 8 to 18, and it's a big world out there. Your incessant bragging, predictions, etc. do nothing more then write checks your daughter has to pay for..I hope your considerable resources can overcome your arrogance. For HER sake.

Anyway, your invective doesn't bother me. Really. As the son of an old school football coach, I'm more inclined to value the opinion of those who have actually developed talent, then those that come on a forum and brag about things to come. Along those lines, please do not use your name in the same sentence as Lansdorp. It's laughable.

Btw, JK is not my student. He is the son of tennis pro (poor) from Pakistan. One of his brothers made it to three hundred or so in the world and his other brother is a quality player in his own right. So yeah, I think they did pretty well. However, I'm sure you could take all of them to number one in the world. Especially if they improved there dorsiflexion and lived on collard greens.

[hockeyscout]

You still never answered the five questions I asked anyways. That told me all I needed to know.

1. Tell me what you are seeing in his hip pointers bio-mechanically?

2. Are you concerned with the belly button position (pointing down)?

3. What about his torso elongation?

4. Are you concerned about the splay and buckling?

5. Discuss the double torque, and cancellation of power that's occurring here?

Any thoughts here to specific questions?

Well, you don't know. So, you've decided to abuse me. Sorry I do not see the game the way you do. Your thoughts on tennis are very unique.

[10splayer]

Your comments are VERY personal. If you don't care than just quit writing. I find your condescending remarks arrogant, and classless as well.

How can I relate to you in a respectful manner when you hate tennis parents, and are the type of coach who is authority driven, and not athlete first driven?

That's my impression of what you say, and it could be wrong as I have never met you. Its all about you, your technique, and I am sorry, athletes are developed by parents who are:

- athletes (its genetics)

- feed the children correctly

- surround them with the right people in the winning environment (people who inspire)

- obviously the type of kid you have, and their natural passion, and of course genetics

You should read Pete Sampras' book. He agrees on those four things, and he also states, genetics is the difference.

He also wrote he was very arrogant believing he'd reach the top. Likely, he worked with people who were the same, and believed he'd be number one, even with guys like you being negative left and right (and they are a dime a dozen).

And, most importantly, the best players become the best players because the parents place them with the best people from day one, and build the best foundations.

The game is over by the time a player is nine in my opinion.

Either the right foundations have been set up, or it's over.

I don't buy into your foundations, and I am not sure you'd maximize a world class athletes talents over the long haul.

Everything you say to me is the biggest issue facing USA Tennis right now.

A couple of decades ago the country stopped producing players for very good reason. I understand reading your posts. They are so negative, and everything someone says you take VERY personally.

I can't say I do.

I am pretty sure I have developed more talent than you over the past 21 years in my coaching career. In fact, I know it.

With all due respect I think your ideas on running, movement and proper training are interesting to say the least, and I am so sorry to disagree with you, but your lack of respect for proper fundamentals, not teaching kids the grips, standing back and letting players evolve and especially eating properly will do nothing but hold your athletes back which is really unfortunate.

I'd suggest again you get proper certification to fill in a few of the blanks in your coaching game. Respectfully, of course. The game has changed.

I am sorry you are upset I did not think your player was any good. I understand you wish you never posted the video, however, its not necessary to express that frustration to me. Take it with a grain of salt, and relax.

The next generation of tennis will be VERY different, and it will be based on scientific athletic foundations and dinosaurs will get left behind. The game's evolving, and poor athletes like JM simply will simply are not good enough athletically to be three sport athletes, or play college D1 football, basketball or other sports.

I will make a prediction - in 10 years you'd better be a three sport athlete to be a top 10 player in the world.

Tennis has evolved, and multi dimension athletes only need apply.

You still never answered the five questions I asked anyways. That told me all I needed to know.

1. Tell me what you are seeing in his hip pointers bio-mechanically?

2. Are you concerned with the belly button position (pointing down)?

3. What about his torso elongation?

4. Are you concerned about the splay and buckling?

5. Discuss the double torque, and cancellation of power that's occurring here?

Any thoughts here to specific questions?

Last thought - # 1! A lot of parents will not develop - coach - mentor a Grand Slam Champion. A lot of coaches will not develop - coach and mentor a US Open Champion. Players, a lot won't achieve their lofty, and over the top aspirations. We're all in the same boat here gentleman, as not one of us has produced a world number one. In my team we fight, argue, laugh and learn! Everyone respects each other and works as a team, that is how development gets done.

I don't know how else to say this..other then repeating. It's impossible to take things personally when one doesn't care..I don't care how you develop your daughter, or your take on my work. Ok?

[hockeyscout]

I don't know how else to say this..other then repeating. It's impossible to take things personally when one doesn't care..I don't care how you develop your daughter, or your take on my work. Ok?

Okay, great, then I will repeat, leave it, get the thread back on track. Maybe you can start with answering the five questions?

[gokulms]

Simplicity..

Really sorry to interject here...
but I want to recollect and share a conversation I had with Peter Lundgren in 2012..
Federer didn't understand any of the technical scientific terms floating around like supination, pronation etc. until he was well into his 4-5 grand slam winning streak...
All that happened during training in his formative years was hit forehand - next day trainer asks which part of his body is sore. then trainer works in strengthening that part. Hit back hand - next day trainer asks ..... hit serves next day trainer asks... you get the picture. his body was sculptured based on feedback. SIMPLICITY is the magic work
McEnroe said.. when I walk into the court all I see is a library of strokes I have trained and when I see a ball coming at me I know which stroke from the library to execute. SIMPLICITY

[10splayer]

Really sorry to interject here...
but I want to recollect and share a conversation I had with Peter Lundgren in 2012..
Federer didn't understand any of the technical scientific terms floating around like supination, pronation etc. until he was well into his 4-5 grand slam winning streak...
All that happened during training in his formative years was hit forehand - next day trainer asks which part of his body is sore. then trainer works in strengthening that part. Hit back hand - next day trainer asks ..... hit serves next day trainer asks... you get the picture. his body was sculptured based on feedback. SIMPLICITY is the magic work
McEnroe said.. when I walk into the court all I see is a library of strokes I have trained and when I see a ball coming at me I know which stroke from the library to execute. SIMPLICITY

Don't be sorry, these are valid points...However, everything Fed does, and has learned (on his own) is rooted in early intervention fundamentals. And no, not just "set up" principles. There are intricate set of skills that need to be learned. If you don't believe, go to your local club and look at the games you see from those that learned through self exploration.


Much of this thread is a red herring. There are some who don't even understand what pros do for living. The time restraints, available resources etc.

If a kid shows some potential, and one has an hour a week with that kid, there is a hell of lot of ground to cover in relatively short period of time. The whole key in a situation like that is to try and develop a game which will ALLOW them to grow, self explore, and evolve..That's my opinion.

When I go and watch some of my kids play in college, I am amazed at the things they're doing out there..It certainly transcended both physically and technically what I taught them...Their evolution..Having said that, I demand that kids learn proper fundamentals so they have this ability.

In the case of the OP, If Ed can help the kid develop a nice game, that he can enjoy and play for a life time, mentor him on work ethic, competition etc. it could make a hell of a difference in the kids life..

[don_budge]

red herring...

Much of this thread is a red herring.

red herring
1 a dried smoked herring, which is turned red by the smoke
2 something, especially a clue, that is or is intended to be misleading or distracting: the book is fast-paced, exciting, and full of red herrings.

[klacr]

Right now, it is not about Ed creating a player that plays a nice game.

If Ed can translate his obvious passion for the game into that player then we're in the ballpark, and getting warmer.

The question is, how do we do that?

I had a smart social studies teacher in Grade 7. I got 100 in his class. He'd call me at home, or catch me in the hallways, and start talking to me about hockey and on weekends he'd show up to the rink (along with the local policemen, businessmen, lawyers, whatever), and we'd all play open hockey and have a blast.

That sure helped with community spirit, the local police officer, you knew the guy, played hockey with him every week, and you could talk to the guy.

That's the ticket here:

A few things I might try:

1 - Show up at one of his basketball games, talk to him about the NBA

2 - Start playing 1 on 1 with the kid, or even 21

3 - If he likes basketball incorporate that into his training deal. It will likely get his neurology firing for you, and you could start tossing a football as well as that translates well quite a few things you want to do in tennis like the serve.

4 - Allow him to put on his headsets and listen to music. Or, have him play it in one ear. It may allow him to flow better. If you're not pleased ask him to turn it off. I am sure he'll love listening to his music, and give you better engaged work.

The power of full engagement!

Many posters already mentioned the technical elements on the serve which I agree with but the biggest thing this kid needs is a goal. Short term, long-term. What does he want to do? What can he do? Kids like to compete. Adults like to compare. Give him some challenges to build his confidence and then gradually make them harder. Allow him to play with some adults, in a social doubles match. Let him feel like an adult and special. Get him to recognize the importance of his sport and his role. Under your guidance Ed, this kid will be in great shape.

Kyle LaCroix USPTA
Boca Raton

[klacr]

red herring
1 a dried smoked herring, which is turned red by the smoke
2 something, especially a clue, that is or is intended to be misleading or distracting: the book is fast-paced, exciting, and full of red herrings.

Bigger fan of pickled herring. Now we are talking! Umami goodness!

Kyle LaCroix USPTA
Boca Raton

[don_budge]

Engagement vs. Red herrings...

The power of full engagement!

Many posters already mentioned the technical elements on the serve which I agree with but the biggest thing this kid needs is a goal. Short term, long-term. What does he want to do? What can he do? Kids like to compete. Adults like to compare. Give him some challenges to build his confidence and then gradually make them harder. Allow him to play with some adults, in a social doubles match. Let him feel like an adult and special. Get him to recognize the importance of his sport and his role. Under your guidance Ed, this kid will be in great shape.

Kyle LaCroix USPTA
Boca Raton

Actually…the biggest motivating factor that will happen for this kid is if Ed can get him to toss the ball forwards and send him on his way to the net. Once he sees what he is capable of that should jump start him. I think that service motion is a bomb waiting to happen.

At the same time introduce him to the attacking game…as in net approach and volley. We talked about some drills. These drills are designed for the full package of playing tennis. Total engagement. The drills are designed to push the tennis player to the limits. Run him into the ground…leave him panting for air. It'll make a man of him.

The drills are fully engaging…good word klacr. Because once he is doing these drills he will be practicing every shot from the baseline to the net…and back again. Around the world! He will get to know every inch of the court…compiling a "library of strokes". He will be on the road to discovery. This should whet his appetite and perhaps initiate a love affair with the game.

It's not all that complicated. It's like telling someone the facts of life. Much ado about nothing. Red herrings. 10splayer said it best…on a couple of points. On a bunch of points. I can't wait for the next manifesto.

[don_budge]

EdWeiss...

I love what you are doing. I love why you are doing it. I wish you all the luck in the world and spread a little more love around in that program of yours…from yours truly. Thank you for quoting me. The ultimate compliment on the forum is to be on the receiving end of a comment like yours.

[hockeyscout]

The power of full engagement!

Many posters already mentioned the technical elements on the serve which I agree with but the biggest thing this kid needs is a goal. Short term, long-term. What does he want to do? What can he do? Kids like to compete. Adults like to compare. Give him some challenges to build his confidence and then gradually make them harder. Allow him to play with some adults, in a social doubles match. Let him feel like an adult and special. Get him to recognize the importance of his sport and his role. Under your guidance Ed, this kid will be in great shape.

Kyle LaCroix USPTA
Boca Raton

Now we are finally talking here! This is just great. I like this idea of a socials doubles match. Let him feel like an adult and special. Great post.

[don_budge]

What is power? Answer…control.

The power of full engagement!

Many posters already mentioned the technical elements on the serve which I agree with but the biggest thing this kid needs is a goal. Short term, long-term. What does he want to do? What can he do? Kids like to compete. Adults like to compare. Give him some challenges to build his confidence and then gradually make them harder. Allow him to play with some adults, in a social doubles match. Let him feel like an adult and special. Get him to recognize the importance of his sport and his role. Under your guidance Ed, this kid will be in great shape.

Kyle LaCroix USPTA
Boca Raton

Social doubles requires social skills. Playing with adults? I'm not so certain how he may feel about this. He frustration is a quiet simmering boil beneath the surface that causes him to clam up. He quits trying. It's understandable…I know the feeling from long ago. I am not so certain that the social doubles will be young "Project J"'s cup of tea at this point in his development. Maybe with the proper mentoring…sure why not? Give it a try…it will be interesting to gage his reactions to such a social challenge. I would hesitate to put him into situations where he may feel like the odd man out. Interesting…isn't it? The psychology of the options.

But competitive doubles with his coaches and other players in the program is an excellent idea. Particularly to begin to explore this idea of going forwards. Particularly when it comes to initiating the serve and volley game into his "library of options". What an excellent idea.

He is a very good basketball player...

Serve with Welby method:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sNQOfqqEWiY

When you build a tennis player you naturally want to build on what already exists…to create the foundation. You build on the strengths. I remember well my basketball playing days. At one point the play that my coach would call at the end of the game when it was on the line was…"give the ball to Navarro". I wasn't afraid of anything and I wanted the ball…all of the time. I wanted to guard the top gun on the other team too. I guess that is why I gravitated to individual sports in the end.

So I see his basketball as a super asset. It's a place where he feels comfortable asserting himself. But consider this as well…he is very comfortable going forwards and backwards. He is very comfortable playing offence and defence and the transition areas in between. Sound familiar? A little like tennis…or a lot like tennis used to be played. These forwards and backwards drills are tailor made for this boy. He is comfortable jumping and leaping around on the basketball court…perhaps it will suit him to jumping and leaping about up and around the net. I'll bet that service motion easily morphs into a dynamite smash.

If he develops this attacking game what a surprise it will be to his opponents seeing as nobody else is doing that. I was watching this tournament at Yale University last weekend and it never ceases to amaze me how cookie cutter the tennis is these days. The volley and approach skills of these very talented young tennis players were nonexistent. This type of training will help to give our "Project J" a sense of identity. Hopefully it empowers him in other aspects of life as well.

These drills emphasize control. I ask my students…what is power? I answer my own rhetorical question…control is power. Once you can control yourself you can control the ball. Once you have "mastered" control over the ball you can control your opponents with your tactics and the more you can dictate play. As you develop more and more control with the ball and yourself you pick up the tempo. This is the way that young Stefan Koslov is apparently being developed…not that there is any guarantee that he will be the gold standard.

I am hoping that your video posting of his backhand shows he has already decided to use one hand. The engineering is under way, you know. They are going to speed up the courts or do what it takes to encourage more full court play. Best to get a leg up on things…learn how to play the whole court. Again.

My goodness…this is a thoughtful project Ed. Thanks a million for the thread and the opportunity to express some ideas. I think that the drills that I learned from Bob Brett in Stockholm last winter are certainly very appropriate here. Maybe I should try writing those again.

[don_budge]

Pickled herrings anyone?

Bigger fan of pickled herring. Now we are talking! Umami goodness!

Kyle LaCroix USPTA
Boca Raton

https://sweden.se/culture-traditions/midsummer/

On a side note...Swedes are big on pickled herring on Midsummer. See "Midsummer for Dummies".