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**GeoffWilliams** · 11-13-2014, 10:04 PM

Move very well for an older mma artist. Forehand is better than advertised. Serve is bludgeoned pretty well. Very good chest roll and straight/up down shoulder rotation/exchange. Good hand speed ala Tanner/ivo. Fluid relaxed stroke. That's your best shot by far. Better serve than anyone else on here has ever posted. INcluding many of the articles. Volleys look deadly. Pretty good levels. I want to see that back hand add a modern grip, and more step into that shot on that side, and better coil/unit turn/release. More weight into that shot (deeper knee bend on the hitting step, and less pop up of that hitting heel) and it will be far deadlier.

**gzhpcu** · 11-13-2014, 10:28 PM

Pretty impressive Kyle!

Nice, solid all-around strokes. Nice action on the volley, really moving forward to hit it.

I like your Tanner-like serve with the minimal toss. That really takes good timing! How many fps did you have your slow motion serve taken with? Did you ever measure your serve speed?

P.S. You could eliminate your friend's thumb by investing in a tripod...

**hockeyscout** · 11-13-2014, 11:35 PM

Very intriguing video.

When I look at a video like this I see so much RAW potential.

First off, I haven't seen ANY tennis coaches or parents who are physical or powerful like the wife and I. I am 6'4", 225 at 7 percent body fat) and the wife is 6'3" (and she can squat in the 230 range like Serena and Martina).

You're the first tennis coach I've seen coaching kids who has world class physical tools that would be translatable to other sports. You must be what, 6'7" or something? You're enormous, which is great! When a kid has to compete against A MAN, they become that! My young one see's mama squatting, or papa in the gym fighting, and all she thinks is, well, ho-hum, thats normal, now I will go do it.

Man, I wish we had a specimen like you hammering balls at my young one with no remorse. That'd just be great for her to practice in a group setting with! I do this, local pros, and Juniors, a few times a week, hit the crap out of the ball, high intensity, thousands of balls, and I think every eight year old kid needs to do this to see what the older kids play like! Its the secret of Canada hockey, and American NBA, be young, play a bit with the older guys, get a bloody nose, get sent back to the kids rink and courts and try and keep up next time!

I understand you're now just rounding into shape, however, its pretty obvious you had some great early setups in the small muscle groups. I would have loved to see where you were at when the back, core and rib cage were at optimal performance 2-3 years ago.

Mind telling me how you got injured in the first place?

As I am sure you know as a fellow big man, these are tough setups at our size, so someone has done a good job here.

You look like you had some people around you early who knew what they were doing when you had no racket in your hand, and we're off court.

You missed your calling! Hockey. You're aggressiveness and presence is suited towards it, just like my eight year old daughter. Pity the two of you like tennis, as you'd be much more inclined towards ice, than ground based sports. I would have turned you into a goalie, or big crease clearing defenseman. You've got the perfect size and proportions for it.

Anyways, strokes aside, as I care ZERO about the racket (a lot of stuff needs to be set before you can even think about hands), I see a lot of raw potential in your feet. You have that aggressive presence, and you're calf engagement is so, so promising. It would be pretty easy to get you firing your hip flexors properly, and get it all set up.

I see a few things out of place alignment wise, however, I understand you've got a lot of stuff to get back in gear. Its much better than the other videos we saw here which we're off the charts questionable in terms of athletic setups for me.

The thing about it is, not a lot of athletes REALLY want to do the gym work. I can already see that'd never be a problem for you. This set up takes lots of athletic setup work off the court, and I think you'd be predisposition like say Sampras to putting in that sort of work.

Many athletes don't have the mentality for gym, track and road work, however, you have the aggressiveness to get in their and compete say like Pete Sampras did, or Agassi was willing to do in the later parts of his career.

So many tennis players I have run into who are ranked in the 200 to 1600 range just lack the mentality to get it done in the gym, and want to cheat the system and work on the court.

I can already tell you have that instilled in you here and now, and that is rare.

When you see a kid who's willing to do gym work (natural aggressiveness, not self conscious and willing to put in the work) it's obvious. I see a lot of tennis players who just refuse to get it done in the gym. The pro's who come through here every year for a tournament (well, they cancelled it this year because if the war) and they don't put in the work when it comes to nutrition, cool downs, small muscle work and recovery. The ATP ones wake up in the morning, drink water, eat, get in the gym, go to their room, hit, back in gym, massage, chiropractor and all the rest, win or lose.

I see the kids on the challenger tour eating in a restaurant, and I know it is game over (their coaches are to lazy to shop every day in the open markets, or boil a bit of water on a hotplate to make quinoi or go to the store and buy a cooked organic chicken).

Anyways, seems to me you'd be willing to put in that "***work***", and it won't happen if your athlete, coaches, parents and staff aren't buying into that model.

***For some of us, its what we do every day, and we like it. I am up at 4 am and in the gym. I like it. Then again, I am an example as a parent or coach, and if the athletes see you are in better shape then they are, it helps set the tone and give you a credibility no one else can ever have! ****

I'm always interested in seeing fat, lazy, un-athletic coaches, recruiters, agents and experts talking to their kids about discipline and work ethic when they are not doing it themselves day in and day out. Its pretty sad. I'd never let a coach preach discipline to my kid. It'd be an embarrassment to our family. Kids get these habits at one years old from mom - dad (at least mine do). It translates to everything they do in life.

Their looks like their is some real effort on your part here, and you're not a pretender collecting a paycheck.

To get back on track - I am pretty impressed with your proprioception considering the fact you've just come back from a back injury. I love how aggressively you play for a big man. You're not waiting for the ball to arrive EVER.

Bottom line, coaches in any sport would fall over themselves to work with an real athlete like you as their's so much upside (when you were 6 - 7 or 8).

You come across as a very smart individual, so that'd be a bonus, you'd be very easy to lead to your NEXT's.

Its a player driven show, and I think you're a pretty independent guy who's astute enough to figure it out on your own, and take accountability for your development. Our player driven model of development here would have worked nicely with you, and the fact you are aggressive by nature is even better!

I will post my daughter soon.

She hasn't been on the court now for a while now as she's been preparing for a MMA fight coming up soon.

**hockeyscout** · 11-13-2014, 11:46 PM

And, love the flat stuff. Drives me mental spin. We don't do it. Low, hard and flat. You're big, so it works nicely!

**gzhpcu** · 11-14-2014, 12:10 AM

Originally posted by hockeyscout View Post

And, love the flat stuff. Drives me mental spin. We don't do it. Low, hard and flat. You're big, so it works nicely!

Right! Just look at Cilic, Del Potro... Nice to see flat shots for a change...

**stotty** · 11-14-2014, 01:34 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXqLZJQ4Emg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r4OkITdLTSo

Well thanks for posting your clips, Klacr. About time...

I think the best thing to do is tackle one shot at a time. I'm going to start with the forehand. It's always tricky assessing strokes that are being pumped out so uniformly from a ball machine because we only see a player under minimal duress. I stopped displaying an advanced student because of this reason. I decided I may invest in a wide angle camera for such purposes. You can film whole matches this way. But I digress....

We do, however, get a good view of Kyle's swing path and set up. I like the set up. The body turn and positioning of the feet seem good, and this gets repeated over and over...like it. I especially like those last couple of micro steps before the strike. So many young players don't do this. It's those little steps that can make all the difference between getting set up really well and not being quite behind the ball.

The thing I am far less keen on is the swing path. The racket head never seems get beneath the level of the ball as you approach to hit it. (I'd like to see a slow motion to verify this but it certainly seems that way from the real time clips). As a result the shot looks slappy and loose at times. The front view clips bear this out best. Now I understand you are taking the ball early and high up on the bounce at times, but it doesn't alter the fact you still need to come from underneath the ball at least a bit.

If you look at Federer, he is hitting this ball at a similar height to you, but his racket head drops well beneath the ball when he's pulling the trigger. Even when he is hitting flatter he will come from underneath.

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http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/strokearchive/pro_men/roger_federer_09/rf_forehand/rf_fh_center/rf_fh_center.html?RFFHCenterCrosscourtCourtLevelRear.mov

It makes me wonder how the shot would stand up under duress, especially when pulled out wide. I'd like to see you hit a few shots where you let the ball drop lower off the bounce to see how that effects the look of the stroke, and to see if it forces the racket head lower.

**hockeyscout** · 11-14-2014, 03:05 AM

Originally posted by licensedcoach View Post

Well thanks for posting your clips, Klacr. About time...

You're so far off base with this one!

You'd injury the guy putting him under duress right now.

The things you want done with the racket need to be done with the hips, and well, its pretty easy to see he's still rehabilitating and getting it back in gear from his all-around athletic functionality.

He's not hitting it at a fraction of the power he could hit it because he's still getting his core set up.

I'm would not move him a lot right now. Its a gradual process.

This guy (Kyle) is like god-zilla, so much more room for power.

I hate coaches who run the hell out of athletes who haven't been set up. It is scary to watch tennis practices, and what coaches are getting Junior's to do!

I would not yet extend this player out until I got a few athletic things in order (he's likely still rehabilitating).

I like the fact he can make one great shot.

He's shown me he can step into the ball pretty well considering the fact he's a bit tight right now and hasn't been what I call "opened up."

Second off, give me an athlete that can make one great shot, and the rest can be trained and developed with proper athletic foundations and fundamentals.

It'd be no issue in extending this guy out because his gait is pretty damn good, his small muscle groups are so nicely developed and he his breathing is so fluid and calm. I am talking over the long term.

I can safely say licensedcoach you've never coached or developed an athlete even close to Kyle. This guys has all the tools every coach DREAMS about developing and molding. If Kyle was semi-retired like me and could pursue nothing he'd be one of the best on the seniors tour.

Development is a perfect storm in many ways, if this guy was born in Pete Sampras' or Novak Djokovic's neighborhood he'd be in that class. Its a fine line.

His hand eye is just superb for a man of his size. Likely it came from hitting nice flat balls over and over, and just some natural genetics. Or, he was perhaps like my young daughter and refused to go with spin cause he loved the feel of power, and hitting one inch over the net. You've got to be aggressive, possess ball of king kong and be willing to work long hours at your game to hit a nice flat ball like this guy is doing here in the video.

I hate lazy guys hitting top spin, and I see no bullshit with this guy here!

The spin is the easy part, and last part of the developmental path, however, he's so big he don't need it, and that is rare to find an athlete like that who has consistency when hitting flat.

Man, this guy is a mountain of a man!

Like I said, a tremendous project of a player, and the type who just needed a perfect storm to have made it.

To bad this guy wasn't in the Ukraine, he'd be a great hitting partner for my young one!

I'd love him driving those hard flat balls!

You know, he probably hits and delivers a ball like Landsdorf does, that hard, heavy, flat ball with OLD MAN strength that not many pro coaches can (or have the balls to) feed their kids over and over and over.

**hockeyscout** · 11-14-2014, 03:16 AM

Did I mention that balls looks HEEEEAAAAVVVVYYYYYY.

**hockeyscout** · 11-14-2014, 03:31 AM

Just watched the serve. Few things you do that I'd never let you do ever if I was mentoring you like bouncing the ball, and their's a couple of athletic setup exercises you need to get back to right now, however, it's nice.

Your doing a lot of nice simple things here which is good. Especially, considering the fact you are a big, heavy man, simple is the way to go. The toss is perfect. That's how I want it done. It'll screw up everyones rhythm, and a heavy ball will be on them before they know what the hell would happened. When you are BIG, that's the way to go. Get it on the opponent before they know what hit them.

What really impresses me in all of this is your absolute unbelievable hand speed for a big man. Your hand eye looked real nice in the groundstrokes, however, in this serve you can make a ton of micro adjustments, and it's impressive considering where you are at right now in your general setups and getting back at it. I like your hand speed a LOT.

**gzhpcu** · 11-14-2014, 03:53 AM

Originally posted by licensedcoach View Post

If you look at Federer, he is hitting this ball at a similar height to you, but his racket head drops well beneath the ball when he's pulling the trigger. Even when he is hitting flatter he will come from underneath.

Maybe it is the forehand grip? Looking at some studies of Laver, Panatta, Nastase, Gimeno, I see a similar swing path. The more you go towards Western, the more the head drops. Do you use a continental grip Kyle?

Question is: Do you need for the racket to drop when hitting a hard flat shot will little or no topspin?

**10splayer** · 11-14-2014, 03:55 AM

Originally posted by hockeyscout View Post

You're so far off base with this one!

You'd injury the guy putting him under duress right now.

The things you want done with the racket need to be done with the hips, and well, its pretty easy to see he's still rehabilitating and getting it back in gear from his all-around athletic functionality.

He's not hitting it at a fraction of the power he could hit it because he's still getting his core set up.

I'm would not move him a lot right now. Its a gradual process.

This guy (Kyle) is like god-zilla, so much more room for power.

I hate coaches who run the hell out of athletes who haven't been set up. It is scary to watch tennis practices, and what coaches are getting Junior's to do!

I would not yet extend this player out until I got a few athletic things in order (he's likely still rehabilitating).

I like the fact he can make one great shot.

He's shown me he can step into the ball pretty well considering the fact he's a bit tight right now and hasn't been what I call "opened up."

Second off, give me an athlete that can make one great shot, and the rest can be trained and developed with proper athletic foundations and fundamentals.

It'd be no issue in extending this guy out because his gait is pretty damn good, his small muscle groups are so nicely developed and he his breathing is so fluid and calm. I am talking over the long term.

I can safely say licensedcoach you've never coached or developed an athlete even close to Kyle. This guys has all the tools every coach DREAMS about developing and molding. If Kyle was semi-retired like me and could pursue nothing he'd be one of the best on the seniors tour.

Development is a perfect storm in many ways, if this guy was born in Pete Sampras' or Novak Djokovic's neighborhood he'd be in that class. Its a fine line.

His hand eye is just superb for a man of his size. Likely it came from hitting nice flat balls over and over, and just some natural genetics. Or, he was perhaps like my young daughter and refused to go with spin cause he loved the feel of power, and hitting one inch over the net. You've got to be aggressive, possess ball of king kong and be willing to work long hours at your game to hit a nice flat ball like this guy is doing here in the video.

I hate lazy guys hitting top spin, and I see no bullshit with this guy here!

The spin is the easy part, and last part of the developmental path, however, he's so big he don't need it, and that is rare to find an athlete like that who has consistency when hitting flat.

Man, this guy is a mountain of a man!

Like I said, a tremendous project of a player, and the type who just needed a perfect storm to have made it.

To bad this guy wasn't in the Ukraine, he'd be a great hitting partner for my young one!

I'd love him driving those hard flat balls!

You know, he probably hits and delivers a ball like Landsdorf does, that hard, heavy, flat ball with OLD MAN strength that not many pro coaches can (or have the balls to) feed their kids over and over and over.

Where to even begin? First things first...Look up "straw man" and then lets proceed.

**stroke** · 11-14-2014, 04:20 AM

Originally posted by 10splayer View Post

Where to even begin? First things first...Look up "straw man" and then lets proceed.

Perfect

**klacr** · 11-14-2014, 06:13 AM

Originally posted by GeoffWilliams View Post

Move very well for an older mma artist. Forehand is better than advertised. Serve is bludgeoned pretty well. Very good chest roll and straight/up down shoulder rotation/exchange. Good hand speed ala Tanner/ivo. Fluid relaxed stroke. That's your best shot by far. Better serve than anyone else on here has ever posted. INcluding many of the articles. Volleys look deadly. Pretty good levels. I want to see that back hand add a modern grip, and more step into that shot on that side, and better coil/unit turn/release. More weight into that shot (deeper knee bend on the hitting step, and less pop up of that hitting heel) and it will be far deadlier.

Thanks Geoff! I can hit the backhand with a more eastern grip with knuckle on top, will use that in next videos. I do agree with back foot lifting on backhand. I am leaning and trying to get over the ball but yes, that back foot does fling up.

Originally posted by gzhpcu View Post

Pretty impressive Kyle!

Nice, solid all-around strokes. Nice action on the volley, really moving forward to hit it.

I like your Tanner-like serve with the minimal toss. That really takes good timing! How many fps did you have your slow motion serve taken with? Did you ever measure your serve speed?

P.S. You could eliminate your friend's thumb by investing in a tripod...

Appreciate the kind words Phil. I've always had good timing on all my shots. Not something I think about to much but I always seem to get there with no issues. The fps on the slo-mo is 60.
Yes, we talked about a tri-pod and have one. Just rushed for time.

Kyle LaCroix USPTA
Boca Raton

**stotty** · 11-14-2014, 06:31 AM

Originally posted by gzhpcu View Post

Question is: Do you need for the racket to drop when hitting a hard flat shot will little or no topspin?

I suspect you do unless you hit totally flat. In the front view of Klacr's forehand, it certainly looks (be nice to see the shot slowed don to be exact) like the racket isn't getting below the ball on most shots. I checked out Mecir and a few others flat hitters and they seem to get the racket below the ball even on higher balls. Soderling was a flattish hitter (in the archive) who also seems to come from underneath.

Connors is the closest to flat I can remember. His racket head seems fairly equal in height to the ball as he approaches the strike.

Please login

http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/strokearchive/modern_legends/jimmyconnor/jc_forehand/jc_fh_center/jc_fh_center.html?JCFHCenterFront1.mov

Like I said, there are plenty of things to like about the shot, it's just that one aspect doesn't look quite right to me.

I would be interested to know what others think?

What grip are you using, Klacr. Eastern...strong eastern?

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