klacr Strokes

[klacr]

Kyle, of all the clips on Tennisplayer, the one you posted is my all time favourite. It shows RJ's weight transfer to perfection. His motion is amazing to watch.

http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/strokearchive/pro_men/richardkrajicek/richardkrajicek_serve/rk_1st_serve/rk_1st_serve.html?RK1stSDeuceCourtLevelSide2.mov

It looks easy, doesn't it? But it so difficult to do if your motion has been long established. I tried reworking mine to be like RJ's but couldn't do it. I can change swing paths, alter from classic to staggered, hit at the apex....all sorts. But I cannot resynch my weight transfer and master what RJ does. It's really difficult to do.

No other player, to my knowledge, has ever done it as well as RJ.

It's a beauty stotty. Really is. I never get tired of watching that motion.

Kyle LaCroix USPTA
Boca Raton

[klacr]

Vic Braden and others state hand facing down on the takeback to avoid the waiter's tray position... I wouldn't change it!

Phil, I'm just talking about the start of the set-up position. Mine would remain the same with racquet on edge a la my normal motion. But my palm does turn too far outward and nearly faces back fence. Part of that is from shoulder turn but I feel its gone too far. I may be going crazy but its not the first time.

Some pros have an obvious open palm on beginning of motion

Milos Raonic - Extreme example
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vioaQUru2SA

Tomas Berdych
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CAwiawHaFEg

Ivan Ljubicic
http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/...euceFront1.mov

Ivo Karlovic - 50 second mark
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i0RbHNOCaws

Roger Federer - Subtle example

http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/strokearchive/pro_men/roger_federer_09/rf_serve/rf_1st_serve/rf_1st_serve.html?RF1stSDeuceCourtLevelFront1.mov

Note: I'm not trying to model my serve after any of these men. Just using their palm open/up on set up to show you what I mean.

Sometimes when that palm gets forced down it ends up too far away behind you pointing in other direction. Having palm open helps these players take the hand back while not turning over and back to far. Try it home. Palm stays towards side or even over your head like you are holding a mirror above your head. Strings don't turn away from ball or head until you turn shoulders and by then its only to side fence, not back fence.

Kyle LaCroix USPTA
Boca Raton

[tennis_chiro]

So which Richard should it be? Gonzales or the Big Dutchman Krajicek?

tennis_chiro, one thing I also noticed which has been of a fascination to me is the palm of my racquet hand faces down to the court as the racquet goes back, but many servers, RK included actually dont turn their palm down when taking the racquet back. This actually helps him reach that classic trophy position with strings facing side fence. As opposed to mine in which my strings end up pointing to back fence. Some players start with their motions with their palms slightly open along with with racquet face (Raonic, Berdych, Karlovic, Ljubicic, even Federer just a tad). This helps them compensate for that racquet wanting to force the palm open on the backswing pre-racquet drop. I'm not looking to start my palm open on my motion, but I do need to realize that I don't have to force it down on backswing.

Kyle LaCroix USPTA
Boca Raton

Kyle,
I don't think you are that far off from Krajicek's position just before he gets to the trophy position, but there is a difference.

To see Kyle's quicktime serve, go to post 134, page 14:

http://www.tennisplayer.net/bulletin/showthread.php?t=2825&page=14

Krajicek serve:

http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/strokearchive/pro_men/richardkrajicek/richardkrajicek_serve/rk_1st_serve/rk_1st_serve.html?RK1stSDeuceCourtLevelSide2.mov

Gonzales serve:

http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/strokearchive/golden_legends/panchogonzales/panchogonzales.html?PGServeFront1.mov

As Stotty points out, it is really hard to change the fundamental rhythm. But if you do want to try to do it, realize that neither Gonzalez nor Krajicek ever get their weight as far back as you do. You probably get upwards of 60% of your weight on your right foot by the time you finish raising the racket at the beginning of the motion. Check the most rearward position of RK's right hip; it never goes much beyond his right instep and his center of gravity is clearly just a little behind midway between his feet. Your right hip gets beyond the outside of your right foot and your CofG is almost right over your right foot. If you want to emulate either of them, you have to find a way to change that fundamental rock. I think you could do it by continuing to do your little forward press with your hands as you lift them up at the beginning, but I would have you keep your weight forward or even rock it slightly forward as you did that. NOTE: this would create an entirely different feel to your rhythm/rock. But it might enable you to break out of that rearward weight loading and push you more toward the forward bowing that puts you that 4' out in front like Geoff is suggesting. (Look where RK's left foot lands in the court.)

Better do some flexibility stretches before you try it! Strongly recommend searching youtube for the following 12 minute workout: "lower back workout, with Dr. Eric Goodman"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4BOTvaRaDjI&noredirect=1

In fact, I'd recommend that for everyone regardless.

Good luck.

don

[stotty]

Kyle,
I was looking at your backswing again and I think you should recognize there is no actual "racket drop" like RK. Krajicek's racket head actually drops lower in the backswing. If you really want to mirror his motion, you have to address this. You could do this by simply starting your hands a little higher; the additional time to get the racket traveling that much farther could lead you to synchronizing the rearward weight transfer more with the dropping of the hands ala RK.

On the other hand, there is another great server who has the kind of backswing you are exhibiting here: Richard Pancho Gonzales.

http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/strokearchive/golden_legends/panchogonzales/panchogonzales.html?PGServeFront1.mov

But he also synchronizes the weight transfer a little more like RK with hands down/weight back, hands up/weight forward. A key part of that rock rhythm is that the weight never gets past 50% on the rear foot; it's more of a bounce.

Just some food for thought for you. Not a bad thing to have a backswing like Pancho!

don

Kyle, of all the clips on Tennisplayer, the one you posted is my all time favourite. It shows RJ's weight transfer to perfection. His motion is amazing to watch.

http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/strokearchive/pro_men/richardkrajicek/richardkrajicek_serve/rk_1st_serve/rk_1st_serve.html?RK1stSDeuceCourtLevelSide2.mov

It looks easy, doesn't it? But it so difficult to do if your motion has been long established. I tried reworking mine to be like RJ's but couldn't do it. I can change swing paths, alter from classic to staggered, hit at the apex....all sorts. But I cannot resynch my weight transfer and master what RJ does. It's really difficult to do.

No other player, to my knowledge, has ever done it as well as RJ.

[gzhpcu]

Vic Braden and others state hand facing down on the takeback to avoid the waiter's tray position... I wouldn't change it!

[klacr]

Which Richard?

Kyle,
I was looking at your backswing again and I think you should recognize there is no actual "racket drop" like RK. Krajicek's racket head actually drops lower in the backswing. If you really want to mirror his motion, you have to address this. You could do this by simply starting your hands a little higher; the additional time to get the racket traveling that much farther could lead you to synchronizing the rearward weight transfer more with the dropping of the hands ala RK.

On the other hand, there is another great server who has the kind of backswing you are exhibiting here: Richard Pancho Gonzales.

http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/strokearchive/golden_legends/panchogonzales/panchogonzales.html?PGServeFront1.mov

But he also synchronizes the weight transfer a little more like RK with hands down/weight back, hands up/weight forward. A key part of that rock rhythm is that the weight never gets past 50% on the rear foot; it's more of a bounce.

Just some food for thought for you. Not a bad thing to have a backswing like Pancho!

don

So which Richard should it be? Gonzales or the Big Dutchman Krajicek?

tennis_chiro, one thing I also noticed which has been of a fascination to me is the palm of my racquet hand faces down to the court as the racquet goes back, but many servers, RK included actually dont turn their palm down when taking the racquet back. This actually helps him reach that classic trophy position with strings facing side fence. As opposed to mine in which my strings end up pointing to back fence. Some players start with their motions with their palms slightly open along with with racquet face (Raonic, Berdych, Karlovic, Ljubicic, even Federer just a tad). This helps them compensate for that racquet wanting to force the palm open on the backswing pre-racquet drop. I'm not looking to start my palm open on my motion, but I do need to realize that I don't have to force it down on backswing.

Kyle LaCroix USPTA
Boca Raton

[klacr]

[QUOTE=GeoffWilliams;30765]When you are dead you don't know you are dead. It's the same for strokes locked up. "You can't teach a middle aged dog new tricks.", Ha ha.(Let's see if that motivates you.)

QUOTE]

Middle aged at 32. Geeez. That hurts. But yeah, that motivates me.


Kyle LaCroix USPTA
Boca Raton

[tennis_chiro]

Went out on court early this morning. Didn't hit a ball. Just trying to replicate the technical elements of this motion first... Going through the physical motions.

http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/...LevelSide2.mov

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gAqWscPjDpA

It's tough but I have the visual image. Just need to keep doing it. The timing of it all is a bit tricky but I'm determined to get it in sync and have a gorgeous motion again.

Kyle LaCroix USPTA
Boca Raton

Kyle,
I was looking at your backswing again and I think you should recognize there is no actual "racket drop" like RK. Krajicek's racket head actually drops lower in the backswing. If you really want to mirror his motion, you have to address this. You could do this by simply starting your hands a little higher; the additional time to get the racket traveling that much farther could lead you to synchronizing the rearward weight transfer more with the dropping of the hands ala RK.

On the other hand, there is another great server who has the kind of backswing you are exhibiting here: Richard Pancho Gonzales.

http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/strokearchive/golden_legends/panchogonzales/panchogonzales.html?PGServeFront1.mov

But he also synchronizes the weight transfer a little more like RK with hands down/weight back, hands up/weight forward. A key part of that rock rhythm is that the weight never gets past 50% on the rear foot; it's more of a bounce.

Just some food for thought for you. Not a bad thing to have a backswing like Pancho!

don

[GeoffWilliams]

Krajiceks' contact point is 4' inside the base line, ala Sampras. Yours is about 1.0'. So you are losing 3.0 feet of kinetic path way. The only way those guys are able to contact so far out in front is the way they bow. They use a double bow, one back and one forwards, so that the shoulders line up straight up and down. That takes a straight, high toss arm, with the chest "stretched" and the rear shoulder all the way cocked on both bows. And a toss far in front and high. You can see your toss arm does not do that, nor does your chest nor shoulder. The bow depends greatly on the toss arm. When you are dead you don't know you are dead. It's the same for strokes locked up. "You can't teach a middle aged dog new tricks.", Ha ha.(Let's see if that motivates you.)

70lbs ago I was 32yrs. old. I'm learning the type III fh, and the double bow serve. Changing the toss location is one of the hardest things to do in tennis, even though no one is ****ing with you while tossing. Dementieva/Ivanovic.

[gzhpcu]

Looking good Kyle. A small detail, I think you could accentuate the archer's bow position more like Krajieck does...maybe also get the tossing arm higher (who am I to talk... ) otherwise great drop, great arm pronation.

[klacr]

Went out on court early this morning. Didn't hit a ball. Just trying to replicate the technical elements of this motion first... Going through the physical motions.

http://www.tennisplayer.net/members/...LevelSide2.mov

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gAqWscPjDpA

It's tough but I have the visual image. Just need to keep doing it. The timing of it all is a bit tricky but I'm determined to get it in sync and have a gorgeous motion again.

Kyle LaCroix USPTA
Boca Raton

[gzhpcu]

Invert the fh, angle the chest to the net post, cock the rear shoulder back more, and add the around the neck wrap finish ala Tberd. Then you will have something to be thankful for: the 52 English colonists, and the 91 wamponag indians, ate the harvest in 1621. When we make progress in our games, and overcome a weak stroke model, we feel thankful. Stroke progress is food for the soul.

Think you have been reading too much of "A New Year's Serve"...

[klacr]

Invert the fh, angle the chest to the net post, cock the rear shoulder back more, and add the around the neck wrap finish ala Tberd. Then you will have something to be thankful for: the 52 English colonists, and the 91 wamponag indians, ate the harvest in 1621. When we make progress in our games, and overcome a weak stroke model, we feel thankful. Stroke progress is food for the soul.

Well said Geoff. Thanks.

Kyle LaCroix USPTA
Boca Raton

[GeoffWilliams]

Invert the fh, angle the chest to the net post, cock the rear shoulder back more, and add the around the neck wrap finish ala Tberd. Then you will have something to be thankful for: the 52 English colonists, and the 91 wamponag indians, ate the harvest in 1621. When we make progress in our games, and overcome a weak stroke model, we feel thankful. Stroke progress is food for the soul.

[gzhpcu]

Also remember we are all built differently, biomechanically different. A friend of mine once had the idea to execute some measurements on a player's body, checking for flexibility, whether or not one leg was longer than the other, length of joints, etc., and trying to come up with the optimal playing style for the specific player (and the healthiest, too...). Too bad, we started working on the idea, but he then never followed up on it...